[CALL JOINT MEETING TO ORDER]
[00:00:07]
AFTERNOON. TODAY IS TUESDAY, MAY 21ST. IT IS IN YEAR 2024. IT'S 505 IN THE AFTERNOON. WE ARE IN COUNCIL CHAMBERS AT 222 NORTH TENNESSEE STREET. THIS IS A JOINT MEETING, WE HAVE A QUORUM HERE OF CITY COUNCIL AND MAYOR FULLER. WE HAVE A QUORUM OF THE HBHB IS HERE. THE TIME IS 506, AND I CALL THE HBHB MEETING TO ORDER. ALL RIGHT. PUBLIC COMMENTS. DO WE HAVE WE HAVE NO.
[PUBLIC COMMENTS ON AGENDA ITEMS]
NO ONE HAS SIGNED UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS ON AGENDA ITEMS. I'M SORRY. WE DO HAVE ONE. NO NO.BETH BENTLEY, I'LL BRING MY NOTES. YOU KNOW, I SAY THAT WITH GREAT AFFECTION. I KNOW, I DON'T KNOW. GOOD EVENING, MR. MAYOR. CITY COUNCIL, MR. CITY MANAGER AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION ADVISORY BOARD. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. I'M 508 NORTH CHESTNUT IS A PROPERTY THAT I HAVE THE PLEASURE TO NOW OWN. AND IT IS WITHIN THIS DISTRICT, THIS LAYER THAT YOU ALL WILL BE DISCUSSING TONIGHT. AND I'D LIKE TO JUST OFFER JUST 2 TO 3 THINGS, JUST FOR CONSIDERATION. IT MAY BE A PART OF THE PRESENTATION TONIGHT. I HAVE NOT, I'LL ADMIT, I HAVE NOT HAD A CHANCE TO READ THAT 155 PAGE REPORT, BUT I'M GOING TO I'M GOING TO READ THE REPORT.
AND SO THE FIRST ONE IS, I KNOW THAT YOU ALL CONSIDER NONTRADITIONAL USES IN MANY AREAS WITH THROUGH ZONING AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT I'D LIKE FOR YOU ALL TO CONSIDER FOR THIS AREA AS WELL AS FOR THE OVERLAY THAT GOES OVER ACROSS HIGHWAY FIVE, NONTRADITIONAL USES AS WELL AS NONTRADITIONAL, FUNDING OPPORTUNITY USES. SO THAT'S THE FIRST ONE. AND THEN THE SECOND ONE IS TO CONSIDER, A POTENTIAL COMMITTEE THAT COULD REPORT TO THIS, THESE THIS JOINT BODY. AND WITH OPPORTUNITIES FOR THOSE THOSE USES AS WELL AS THOSE FUNDING OPPORTUNITIES TO DO SOME RESEARCH. AND I'M OFFERING MYSELF TO PARTICIPATE IN SOME OF THAT JUST BECAUSE IT IS SO NECESSARY. AND, I THINK IT WOULD BE ABLE TO MAYBE ADD SOME VALUE TO WHAT YOU ALL ARE ALREADY DOING. AND I APPRECIATE JUST THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE THAT WITH YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU BETH.
[Update on the Historic Resources Survey]
THANK YOU BETH. ALL RIGHT. WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR ITEM 24 1571 UPDATE ON HISTORIC RESOURCES SURVEY. THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR. CITY COUNCIL, HISTORIC PRESERVATION ADVISORY BOARD JENNIFER ARNOLD, DIRECTOR OF PLANNING I'M ACTUALLY HERE JUST TO GIVE A BRIEF INTRODUCTION TO CASSIE BUMGARDNER, WHO'S ACTUALLY GOING TO BE WALKING YOU THROUGH THE PRESENTATION. THIS IS JUST A BRIEF REMINDER THAT THE CITY HAS BEEN WORKING FOR THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS ON UPDATING OUR HISTORIC RESOURCES SURVEY, AND WE HAVE COME TO THE COMPLETION OF THAT. AND SO TONIGHT, THE GOAL FOR CASSIE AND MYSELF IS TO WALK YOU THROUGH SOME OF THE MAJOR FINDINGS OF THAT REPORT AND SOME OF THE NEXT STEPS AND RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE HOPE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH COMING OUT OF THE REPORT. SO WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO CASSIE. SHE'S ACTUALLY BEEN WITH THE CITY FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS, AND OUR HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE. SO SHE IS WELL FAMILIAR WITH OUR HISTORIC DOWNTOWN. EVEN THOUGH YOU MIGHT NOT SEE HER VERY OFTEN. AND SHE WAS THE RIGHT HAND ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT. SO I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO CASSIE AND LET HER WALK YOU THROUGH IT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. SO LET'S JUST GO AHEAD AND DIVE RIGHT IN. SO TONIGHT I'VE STRUCTURED THE PRESENTATION TO KIND OF START WITH A BRIEF EXPLANATION OF THE DIFFERENT SECTIONS OF THE REPORT. JUST IN CASE YOU AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH A HISTORIC RESOURCE SURVEY, THEN WE'LL DO THE OVERVIEW OF KIND OF WHAT THEY FOUND OUT WHILE THEY WERE DOING THE SURVEY. THE CONSULTANTS RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE NEXT STEPS. THAT'S WHERE I'LL BE ASKING FOR SOME DIRECTION FROM THE COUNCIL AND THE BOARD ON WHERE TO FOCUS.SOME OF OUR STAFF TIME. SO HISTORIC RESOURCES SURVEY IS KIND OF BROKEN DOWN INTO THREE LARGER CHUNKS OF INFORMATION. THE FIRST ONE IS THE HISTORY PORTION. SOME COMMUNITIES ACTUALLY DO THAT AS A FULL REPORT ITSELF. THE 155 PAGES WOULD ALL BE HISTORY, BUT FOR OUR SAKE, WE DID A KIND OF CONSOLIDATED ONE. AND THAT STARTS ROUGHLY ABOUT PAGE TEN, I BELIEVE. THEN THAT NEXT SECTION, WHICH IS THE BULK OF OURS, IS THE ARCHITECTURAL SURVEY, AND THIS IS THE UPDATE. THIS IS WHERE WE GET ALL THE SURVEY FORMS AND ALL THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE PROPERTIES. THEN FINALLY THEY CLOSE WITH THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS ON WHERE THEY THINK WE SHOULD, MOVE FORWARD WITH. SO THIS MAP JUST KIND OF SHOWS THE LARGER PROJECT AREA
[00:05:08]
THROUGHOUT THE REPORT. THEY KIND OF CALL IT DIFFERENT THINGS. SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE TO TOUCH ON THIS BRIEFLY, THE HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT AREA OR THE HSA IS THE ENTIRE MAP.THAT'S EVERYTHING IN BLUE RIGHT NOW. WE HAVE THE HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT. SO THAT WOULD BE THE PART THAT HAS THE HASH AND THE KIND OF MIDDLE SECTION, THAT MIDDLE SECTION IS THE ONE THAT HAS THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, SO THERE ARE REGULATORY PORTIONS FOR EXTERIOR MODIFICATIONS AS WELL AS NEW CONSTRUCTION AND THAT HATCHED AREA OUTSIDE OF THE HATCHED AREA IS JUST WHAT THEY REFER TO SOMETIMES AS JUST THE HSA. IT'S JUST THE LARGER PORTION OUTSIDE OF THE HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT. SO THEN, AS I MENTIONED, THEY DO START WITH THAT HISTORIC CONTEXT, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE REPORT, IT DOES START ON PAGE TEN. AND THAT'S BROKEN DOWN INTO THESE, FIVE CATEGORIES, LIKE I SAID, HISTORIC CONTEXT CAN BE THEIR OWN FULL REPORT. SOMETIMES SOME COMMUNITIES WILL DO A REPORT FOR EACH DIFFERENT SECTION, BUT FOR US, WE WANTED OUR CONSULTANTS TO FOCUS ON THE ARCHITECTURAL SURVEY AND THAT UPDATE THAT WAS SO DESPERATELY NEEDED. SO IN MCKINNEY, WHAT THEY FOUND THAT THERE ARE 12 DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF ARCHITECTURE, IN THE HSA. SO THOSE 12 CATEGORIES ARE COLONIAL REVIVAL, COMMERCIAL STYLE, CRAFTSMAN, FOLK, VICTORIAN, NO STYLE, OTHER PRAIRIE, QUEEN ANNE RANCH, AND TUDOR REVIVAL. AND JUST BECAUSE I IMMEDIATELY HAD THE QUESTION OF WHAT DOES OTHER MEAN, OTHER WAS ANY BUILDING WHOSE STYLISTIC INFLUENCES DIDN'T ADHERE TO ONE OF THE OFFICIAL, THC WHO WAS THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION'S BUILDING STYLES? USUALLY THAT MEANS MORE RECENT STYLES. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU THINK OF THE COLLIN COUNTY FEED AND SEED ON CHESTNUT, THAT'S A QUONSET HUT THAT WOULD FALL INTO OTHER, THE OTHER ONE, WHICH I DID WANT TO POINT OUT IS ACTUALLY THIS BUILDING. THIS IS A BRUTALIST STYLE BUILDING. SO THAT WOULD FALL INTO THE OTHER. OUT OF THEIR REPORT, THE CONSULTANTS IDENTIFIED FOR THE, OF THE MOST PREVALENT STYLES IN MCKINNEY.
I'M GOING TO GO IN ORDER OF OLDEST TO NEWEST, THE OLDEST IS NATIONAL FOLK THERE ON THE LEFT.
THEY GENERALLY YOU SEE THEM BUILT FROM 1880 TO 1930. NATIONAL FOLK IS KNOWN FOR A SIMPLE FORM AND KIND OF MINIMAL OR ORNAMENTAL VERSION, DURING THE SURVEY THEY DOCUMENTED 116 OF THESE KIND OF RESIDENCES. 37 WERE IN THE HISTORIC OVERLAY. SO THE SMALLER MIDDLE AREA AND THEN 79 IN THAT OUTSIDE PORTION. AND THEN ON THE RIGHT, CRAFTSMAN STYLE WAS THE NEXT PREVALENT.
YOU SEE THOSE FROM ABOUT 1910 TO 1930. IN TOTAL, THERE WERE 389 OF THOSE, 200 OF THEM WERE INSIDE THE HISTORIC OVERLAY, WHEREAS 189 WERE OUTSIDE IN THE LARGER H.S.A. AND THEN THE NEXT TWO, WE'VE GOT MINIMAL TRADITIONAL AND RANCH STYLE HOMES. SO MINIMAL, TRADITIONAL, VERY POPULAR. FROM 1940 TO 1960, THEY IDENTIFIED 546. OF THESE, 158 WERE IN THE HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT AND 388 WERE JUST OUTSIDE OF THAT, THESE ARE KNOWN FOR LIKE, SIMPLE MASSING AS WELL AS THE MINIMAL ORNAMENTATION AS WELL. SO YOU CAN THINK OF THEM AS KIND OF AN UPDATED VERSION OF NATIONAL FOLK, AND THEN LASTLY IS THE RANCH STYLE. SOME PEOPLE LOVE IT, SOME PEOPLE HATE IT. I ACTUALLY REALLY LOVE RANCH STYLE HOMES. THEY RISE IN POPULARITY FROM 1950 TO 1970. THEY'RE KIND OF KNOWN FOR THIS HORIZONTAL EXPRESSION AS WELL AS, JUST USUALLY BEING THE ONE STORY AND HAVING THAT ATTACHED GARAGE. AND THEN LET ME FIND THE NUMBER FOR YOU. SO THE SURVEY IDENTIFIED A WHOPPING 843 OF THESE INSIDE OF THE HOA, ONLY 82 ARE RIGHT NOW PROTECTED IN THE HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT 761. OUTSIDE OF THAT AREA. SO THEN WE'VE GOT ALL THE ARCHITECTURAL INFORMATION.
THE OTHER PIECE OF THIS IS DOING PRIORITY RATINGS. THE PRIORITY RATINGS IS JUST KIND OF LIKE WHEN THEY TAKE THIS BUILDING, WHAT IS THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE? AND THEN HOW MUCH SIGNIFICANCE AND ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY DO THESE BUILDINGS HAVE? SO THAT MEANS HOW MUCH HAS IT CHANGED OVER TIME? EACH SURVEY PROPERTY RECEIVED A PRIORITY RATING OF EITHER HIGH, MEDIUM, LOW OR
[00:10:08]
NONCONTRIBUTING NONCONTRIBUTING. I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THOSE ARE LIKE INFILL OR VACANT, PARKING LOTS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO OUT OF THAT AREA, THEY ACTUALLY SURVEYED OVER 6200 PROPERTIES, THIS WAS NOT A SMALL UNDERTAKING FOR THEM. AS FAR AS THE DAILY PROCESS, THAT MEANS THAT THIRD COLUMN HAD ONLY THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT DO CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS CURRENTLY.BUT THEN THE LARGER AREA, THE ENTIRE 6200 ARE OPEN TO PROGRAMS SUCH AS THE HNIC, WHICH IS THE HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD IMPROVEMENT ZONE. AND THEN THIS MAP, WE JUST CREATED, JUST TO KIND OF SHOW PRIORITY RATINGS, DO CHANGE OVER TIME. THE DISCUSSION FOR THE PRIORITY CHANGES STARTED ON PAGE 22. IF YOU'RE FOLLOWING ALONG IN THE REPORT ITSELF, AND THEY CHANGE FOR JUST A SEVERAL VARIOUS REASONS, THE GREEN MARKERS ON THE MAP SHOW THAT THE PRIORITY CHANGED TO GO UP. SO SAY FROM MEDIUM TO HIGH. WELL, AS THE YELLOW ONES SHOW THAT THEY DECREASED IN PRIORITY PRESERVATION PRIORITY, SIGNIFICANT ALTERATIONS CAN DECREASE. SO WHEN YOU THINK OF THAT, YOU THINK OF IF THEY CHANGE OUT ALL OF THE WINDOWS, REMOVE DORMERS. AT A VERY LARGE ADDITION, THOSE SORT OF THINGS CAN KIND OF NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE INTEGRITY. AND THEN JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, I'VE GOT THIS PROPERTY RIGHT HERE, WHICH YOU MAY RECOGNIZE. THAT'S 115 117 WEST LOUISIANA. SO WHEN IT WAS FIRST LOOKED AT IN 1985, THERE ON THE LEFT, IT WAS CONSIDERED A MEDIUM PRIORITY, THAT MEANT THAT IT DIDN'T STICK OUT. IT WAS STILL COMPATIBLE WITHIN ITS CONTEXT. HOWEVER, IT VERY MUCH HAD CHANGED SINCE IT WAS BUILT.
AND THEN IN 2020 OR 2021, THAT'S WHEN THEY STARTED DOING WORK ON THIS BUILDING. AND THE NEW SURVEY ACTUALLY FOUND THAT IT WAS CONSIDERED HIGH PRIORITY NOW BECAUSE THEY HAD TAKEN THIS PROPERTY BACK, THEY GOT RID OF KIND OF THAT FAKE BRICK WALL IN THE MIDDLE AND JUST CONVERTED IT BACK TO WHAT IT SHOULD BE. AND THEN A RESIDENTIAL EXAMPLE OF GOING FROM MEDIUM TO HIGH WOULD BE THIS HOUSE ON BRADLEY. IF YOU LOOK OVER ON THE LEFT, THEY HAD SOME SORT OF NON-HISTORIC PORCH ALTERATION. IT LOOKS LIKE ESSENTIALLY THEY DIDN'T WANT TO GET WET GOING FROM THE DRIVEWAY TO THE FRONT DOOR, SO THEN IT'S UNKNOWN WHEN THEY DID THIS CHANGE. IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS PRIOR TO 2009, THEY ACTUALLY TOOK THAT PORCH OFF AND THEN DID A COMPATIBLE, SMALLER PORCH DOWN, DOWN THE DRIVEWAY, WHICH YOU CAN SEE, THE CONSULTANT ACTUALLY TALKS ABOUT THIS HOME AND SAYS THAT IT APPEARS TO RETAIN A HIGH AMOUNT OF INTEGRITY AND HAS MANY CRAFTSMAN DETAILS, LIKE THE HALF TIMBERING AND THE GABLE AND THE MULTI-PANE WINDOWS. SO THEN I CAN'T GO OVER 6200 PROPERTIES, ALL IN AN HOUR. SO HOW ARE WE GOING TO SHARE THIS INFORMATION? WE'RE LOOKING TO SHARE IT THROUGH GIS RIGHT NOW. OUR GIS DEPARTMENT IS TALKING WITH THE CONSULTANTS GIS DEPARTMENT, FIGURING OUT HOW TO TRANSFER THAT DATA, EACH PROPERTY HAS AT LEAST TWO PHOTOS AND A SURVEY CARD. SO THAT IS A LOT OF DATA THAT THEY'RE TRANSFERRING BETWEEN US, ONCE THAT IS IN OUR HANDS, WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS PUT IT ON OUR WEBSITE AND HAVE THAT AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC. THAT WAY THEY CAN LOOK AT IT JUST LIKE OUR COA MAP. AND THEN, WE'RE ALSO HOPING TO WORK WITH THE LIBRARY TO GET A PHYSICAL COPY OF THE REPORT ITSELF, WHICH WAS INCLUDED IN THE PACKET. AND THEN STAFF IS ALSO WORKING TO GET, WORKING WITH THE CONSULTANTS JUST TO GET AN EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE TO GET THOSE RESULTS. ANOTHER WAY. THAT WAY, WE HAVE TWO COPIES OF IT.
SO THEN, AS I SAID, AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS, THE REPORT AT THE END DOES HAVE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE CONSULTANT. ONE OF THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS WAS TO PRIORITIZE THE FURTHER RESEARCH OF BLACK AND HISPANIC NEIGHBORHOODS. THEY HAD IDENTIFIED THE EIGHT POTENTIAL TEXAS HISTORIC MARKERS, OR UNDERTOLD MARKERS, AS WELL AS NINE PROPERTIES THAT NEEDED FURTHER RESEARCH. IN ADDITION TO THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS, STAFF HAS ALSO CONSIDERED THE IDEA OF CULTURAL DISTRICTS FOR LEGACY NEIGHBORHOODS, A CULTURAL DISTRICT, A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN A HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT . CULTURAL DISTRICTS PRIMARILY
[00:15:01]
PROTECT THE FEELING OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND THE ASSOCIATION, RATHER THAN HAVING STRINGENT ARCHITECTURAL, GUIDELINES, THEY WOULD STILL HAVE SOME SORT OF APPROVAL FOR EXTERIOR ALTERATIONS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION. BUT AGAIN, IT'S NOT ABOUT SAVING THE ARCHITECTURE, IT'S MORE ABOUT THE FEELING OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT WAS, PICTURES UP THERE. THAT ONE LOOKS LIKE HOLY FAMILY CHURCH, WHICH I BELIEVE IS ON LINCOLN STREET. THE BOTTOM ONE.THAT ONE IS, IT'S OVER OFF MURRAY STREET OR JUST SOUTH. IT'S USED BY, THE, VIVA A ABUNDANCE, PASTOR AND FALLS CHURCH. OKAY. IT'S A IT'S A SECONDARY SPACE FOR HIM. THAT'S THE TOP ONE YOU'RE SAYING? NO, THE BOTTOM ONE. OH, IT IS THE TOP ONE. IS MALVERN'S HOUSE OKAY? MALVERN'S HOUSE. THAT'S I WAS WONDERING. SORRY I THOUGHT YOU SAID THE BOTTOM ONE. OKAY, BUT. SO THE BOTTOM ONE IS NOT. NO HOLY FAMILY CHURCH. OKAY. THANK YOU. IT'S JUST OFF.
ANTHONY, ANTHONY AND MURRAY. I THINK THERE IS ANOTHER PICTURE IN AN UPCOMING SLIDE WITH HOLY FAMILY CHURCH ON IT. OR AT LEAST I REMEMBER SEEING A PICTURE OF HOLY FAMILY CHURCH, MAYBE IN THE REPORT. IT'S IN THE REPORT. OKAY SO THEN WE'VE GOT ANOTHER RECOMMENDATION FROM THE CONSULTANTS WAS TO LOOK AT POTENTIALLY EXPANDING THE HOD OR CREATING OTHER SMALLER DISTRICTS, SO I KNOW THE MAP IS A LOT TO LOOK AT ALL AT ONCE, BUT THE MAIN TAKEAWAY IS THAT THEY IDENTIFIED DIFFERENT AREAS THAT THEY THOUGHT COULD BE SMALLER, HISTORIC DISTRICTS, AS WELL AS THOSE PINK AREAS THAT ARE CONTIGUOUS WITH THE HISTORIC OVERLAY THEY CONSIDERED FOR EXPANSION IN. AND THEN ANOTHER RECOMMENDATION FROM CONSULTANTS ARE THE TWO FINAL RECOMMENDATIONS WERE TO CONTINUE SURVEY EFFORTS ON A MORE REGULAR SCHEDULE. SINCE OUR LAST BIG UPDATE WAS 1985, FOR THE REST OF THE AREA, THEY SUGGESTED THAT WE LOOK EVERY 5 TO 10 YEARS FOR SCHEDULING THOSE SURVEY EFFORTS AND THEN REFRAMING THE PERCEPTION OF MID-CENTURY MODERN. THAT'S A TREND THAT YOU SEE THROUGHOUT THE NATION. AND THE REASON THAT IS, IS BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T NECESSARILY LOOK AT THESE HOUSES AS WORTHY OF SAVING, BECAUSE THEY THINK THAT'S THE HOUSE I GREW UP IN. HOW IS THAT HISTORIC, THE ANSWER IS IT CAN STILL BE HISTORIC, EVEN IF YOU GREW UP IN IT, AND ESSENTIALLY WHAT THE CONSULTANT ASKED FOR US OR SUGGESTED THAT WE DO, IS HELP PEOPLE SEE THAT THESE ARE A UNIQUE AND RECOGNIZABLE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE THAT DESERVES JUST AS MUCH LOVE AS THEY A CRAFTSMAN OR A QUEEN ANNE. SO THEN WE LOOK AT NEXT STEPS, THIS IS WHERE WE WOULD LIKE SOME DIRECTION TONIGHT. WE KNOW THAT WE'LL BE PUBLISHING THE REPORT AND THE ASSOCIATED DATA AND CONTINUING EDUCATION ON LOCAL ARCHITECTURAL STYLES AND CULTURAL HISTORIES. HOWEVER, WE ARE ASKING IF YOU WOULD LIKE US TO EXPLORE THE CONCEPT OF EXPANDING THE OVERLAY DISTRICT AND WITH THAT, A POTENTIALLY ADOPTING DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR THE EXISTING DISTRICT AND POTENTIALLY CREATING THESE KIND OF SMALLER DISTRICTS, WHICH THE CONSULTANT HAD SUGGESTED. WE'RE ALSO ASKING IF YOU WANT US TO EXPLORE OTHER AVENUES OF RECOGNITION AND PROTECTION, SUCH AS THE UNDERTOLD MARKERS. THE TEXAS STATE MARKERS, AS WELL AS CULTURAL DISTRICTS, CURRENTLY, AND THIS IS A VERY HIGH LEVEL LOOK AT ALL OF THOSE, IF THERE IS INTEREST, WE'RE HAPPY TO COME BACK WITH MUCH MORE FOCUSED DIRECTION AS WELL AS, A PLAN FOR HOW TO DO THAT. SO IN CONCLUSION, WE'VE KIND OF WENT OVER THE REPORT BASICS, AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT THEY FOUND, THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS, AND THEN NOW WE'RE ASKING FOR THE DIRECTION FOR OUR NEXT STEPS. AND THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. AND I'M HAPPY TO STAND FOR ANY QUESTIONS. QUESTIONS I DON'T THINK THE MAP OR I DON'T THINK THE PRESENTATION HAD THE MAPS. THAT'S IN THE SURVEY OF WHERE THERE IS POTENTIAL FOR EXPANSION OF THE HISTORIC OVERLAY. I MAY HAVE MISSED THAT. IT'S IN THERE. IT'S IN THERE. BUT THEN I ALSO GOT A BIGGER ONE. OH THERE IT IS. OKAY. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE ONE THAT'S IT IS BIGGER.
THERE YOU GO. SO WHAT WOULD BE AN ADVANTAGE FOR A HOMEOWNER IN AN AREA LIKE THIS THAT YOU KNOW, I'LL JUST USE THE ONE THAT'S ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE FENCE AND, FINCH AVENUE AND THIS IS BROOKE AVENUE. THOSE THOSE RANCH STYLE HOUSES THAT ARE PROBABLY 70S ERA, 60S ERA, MAYBE BEFORE THEN, THEY'RE ALREADY ELIGIBLE FOR THE ECONOMIC INCENTIVES THAT WE PROVIDE. AND ADDING THEM INTO AN
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OVERLAY DISTRICT, ESSENTIALLY COMES WITH JUST RESTRICTIONS. AT THIS POINT, THERE'S NO THERE'S NO FINANCIAL BENEFIT TO THEM NECESSARILY. SO WHAT WHAT WOULD WHAT'S THE SELLING POINT TO THEM TO SAY? WE WANT YOU INCLUDED IN THIS EXCEPT FOR, YOU KNOW, UNLESS THEY'RE ARCHITECTURE LOVERS AND THEY WANT TO YOU CAN SEE SOME SUCCESS IN THE HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT AND SAY THAT YOUR PROPERTY, YOUR PROPERTY VALUES WILL BE STRONGER, BUT THEY'RE ALL PROBABLY WONDERING HOW THEY GET THE PROPERTY VALUES DOWN AT THIS POINT. SO THERE IS I MEAN, YOU CAN LOOK TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND SEE THAT THERE'S A THERE'S A KIND OF STABILITY THERE. THE DESIGNATION DOES OFFER AS WELL AS IF YOU'RE IN A DESIGNATED AREA. NEW CONSTRUCTION REQUIRES THAT SAME REGULATION. SO WHILE YOU HAVE TO UNDERGO THE REGULATION, SO DOES ANY NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT'S COMING IN. ANY NEW NEIGHBORS OKAY. CASSIE, A COUPLE QUESTIONS ON THE PROCESS. IF CITY COUNCIL WANTED TO ACCEPT THE EXPANSIONS TO THE DISTRICT, WAS THAT PROCESS LOOK LIKE WHAT IS REQUIRED OF THE RESIDENTS? WHAT'S REQUIRED OF THE CITY? THAT WOULD REQUIRE A DEEPER DIVE, AND WE WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK WITH THAT INFORMATION. BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO CONSENT TO BEING IN THE HISTORIC OVERLAY. OKAY, AND I HOPE THIS IS ON, SO I THINK THE INITIAL STEP WOULD BE TO IDENTIFY AN AREA, AND I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A PETITION, A REQUEST PROCESS THROUGH WITH THE PROPERTY OWNERS. AND IF YOU GET A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE THAT ARE IN AGREEMENT , THEN WE'VE GOT THE GREEN LIGHT. IF WE DON'T, THEN IT WOULD COME BACK TO THE COUNCIL.AND I BELIEVE IT'S THE 75% VOTE FROM THE COUNCIL WOULD HAVE TO BE, PASSED IN ORDER TO EXPAND THE DISTRICT WITHOUT HAVING THAT MINIMUM VOTE FROM THE PROPERTY OWNERS. OKAY. AND ONE FOLLOW UP QUESTION. SO THE DISTRICTS THAT HAVE BEEN RECOMMENDED, ANTHONY STREET, GREENVILLE, WHAT IS THE BENEFIT TO THE HOMEOWNERS OF THAT DESIGNATION AS DISTRICT AND VERSUS ONE OF THE OBLIGATIONS OF THE CITY? SO I THINK THAT'S ALSO WHAT JUSTIN WAS ASKING, THEY WOULD IT DEPENDS ON WHAT KIND OF DISTRICT THEY WANT TO BE AS WELL. SO IT IS PRETTY OPEN ENDED. IF THEY WERE A HISTORIC DISTRICT AND THEY WANTED TO GO FORWARD WITH DESIGN GUIDELINES, THEN ANY NEW DEVELOPMENT WOULD ALSO HAVE TO FOLLOW THOSE DESIGN GUIDELINES. ANY NEW HOMES, THAT SORT OF THING, IF THEY DECIDE TO GO TO A CULTURAL DISTRICT, THEN THEY WOULD FOLLOW THOSE KIND OF DESIGN GUIDELINES AND WANT TO KIND OF CHIME IN A LITTLE BIT ON THAT AS WELL, BECAUSE WE INTERNALLY SPENT QUITE A BIT OF TIME DIGESTING THIS MAP BECAUSE IT IS A LOT TO TAKE IN, I THINK ONE THING THAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE IS CLEAR TONIGHT IS THAT WE ARE NOT RECOMMENDING THAT WE EXPAND OR CREATE NEW DISTRICTS TONIGHT. I THINK THE QUESTION THAT WE'RE ASKING IS IF IT IS WORTH EXPLORING, WE CAN TAKE A DEEPER DIVE INTO SOME OF THESE AREAS AND COME BACK TO COUNCIL AND HKB WITH SOME POTENTIAL RECOMMENDATIONS FROM A STAFF STANDPOINT OR PROS AND CONS FOR THE CREATION OF THESE DISTRICTS, WHEN WE FIRST STARTED THIS PROCESS, I THINK THERE WAS, AN UNDERLYING ASSUMPTION THAT GROWTH IN THE HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT WOULD JUST COME FROM THE EXISTING BOUNDARY AND GO OUT. WHAT WE'VE LEARNED IS THAT YOU CAN ALSO CREATE SOME OF THESE SMALLER LOCAL DISTRICTS, AS THEY CALL THEM, THAT ARE MORE POCKET NEIGHBORHOODS, TWOFOLD. WITH THAT INFORMATION WISE, THOSE ARE DESIGNATED BECAUSE THERE WERE ENOUGH PROPERTIES WITHIN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WERE EITHER AT A MEDIUM OR HIGH PRESERVATION PRIORITY RATING THAT THE CONSULTANT FELT THEY MIGHT BE WORTH DESIGNATING AS A UNIQUE DISTRICT. AND THOSE PROPERTIES ALL TYPICALLY SHARE SOME VERY SIMILAR CHARACTERISTIC , PREDOMINANTLY IN ARCHITECTURE. AND SO THOSE LOCAL DISTRICTS ALLOW THAT CO PROCESS POTENTIALLY TO ENSURE THAT NEW CONSTRUCTION OR RECONSTRUCT HAPPEN WITHIN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS, CONTAIN OR ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS. SO THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD, FOR EXAMPLE, IS CRAFTSMAN, HAVING A LOCAL DESIGNATION WOULD HELP TO ENSURE THAT ANY NEW BUILD OR RECONSTRUCTION MIGHT FALL IN LINE WITH THAT CRAFTSMAN STYLE INSTEAD OF GETTING, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING COMPLETELY. IT WOULD BE HISTORIC TO OUR OVERLAY DISTRICT, BUT NOT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO IT ALLOWS SOME OF THAT CONTEXT IN TERMS OF, OVERSIGHT FROM THE CITY. SO I JUST KIND OF WANTED TO CHIME IN A LITTLE BIT ON WHY THOSE AREAS WERE CALLED OUT AND WHAT SOME OF THE CITY BENEFIT MIGHT BE TO HAVING THEM. I THINK YOU'RE DEFINITELY RIGHT. A LOT OF THESE AREAS ARE ALREADY, OPEN TO SOME OF THE ECONOMIC INCENTIVES AND PARTNERSHIPS THAT THE CITY HAS, BUT SOMETIMES THESE DISTRICTS ARE ALSO FOR THE CITY TO HELP PRESERVE SOME OF THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS, IN HISTORY THAT WE MIGHT HAVE. SO I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS. AND JUSTIN, MAYBE ONE OF THEM YOU MAY WANT TO ANSWER OR TOUCH ON, BUT OVER THERE NEAR WHERE YOU LIVE, ON THE NORTH SIDE OF WHITE AVENUE, THEY'RE
[00:25:03]
PUTTING UP SOME I'M GOING TO CALL THEM ZERO LOT TYPE TOWNHOME LOOKING THINGS. THEY DON'T LOOK RIGHT FOR YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. I'M NOT SAYING THEY'RE RIGHT OR NOT, BUT WOULD THIS KIND OF THING HAVE PREVENTED THOSE THINGS FROM GOING IN OR PUT MORE HURDLES FOR THOSE TO GO IN? WELL, I MEAN, IT WOULD, I LIVE RIGHT THERE. SO I'M NOT IN ANY OF THESE. SO THAT'S THAT'S HOW I MEAN IT.YES. OKAY FROM AN ARCHITECTURAL STYLE THAT WAS A WEIRD CASE BECAUSE THE LOT SIZE WAS WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT IT. AND THAT LOT SIZE EXISTED A LONG, LONG TIME AGO AND KIND OF BECAME OBSOLETE, I THINK, BECAUSE IT WAS NOT USED IN THAT WAY. AND SOMEONE FOUND, WELL, THIS IS THE PLAT THAT IS THE ONLY PLAT THAT EXISTS, AND I WANT TO USE IT. AND WE'RE GOING TO BREAK IT INTO THREE LOTS THAT ARE ESSENTIALLY ZERO LOT LINE. SO THE USE IS ACTUALLY A HISTORIC USE VERSUS THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE IS NOT OKAY. BUT THE NEXT QUESTION IS, JENNIFER, I THINK PROBABLY THE ANSWER IS NO. ON THIS LEAST I'M HOPING IT IS. BUT IN THE LAST YEAR OR SO, I THINK IT WAS, THE COUNCIL APPROVED THE AUXILIARY DWELLING UNITS THAT CAN BE BUILT TO HELP WITH SOME DENSITY ISSUES. YOU KNOW, THE ADUS THAT CAN BE BUILT IN THESE NEW CULTURAL DISTRICT TYPE NEIGHBORHOODS. WOULD THERE BE HURDLES PUT IN PLACE FOR THEM TO BUILD ADUS THAT DON'T CURRENTLY EXIST RIGHT NOW? NOT THAT. NO, NOT THAT I CAN THINK OF BECAUSE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS ARE REGULATED MORE BY THE LOT SIZE AND THE ABILITY TO ACTUALLY FIT IT ON THE LOT. BUT PREVIOUS AND NOW THOSE ADUS ARE REQUIRED TO MATCH THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE PRIMARY BUILDING. SO, FROM A FROM A COA, A HISTORIC PRESERVATION STANDPOINT, MY ANSWER WOULD BE NO. OKAY THANK YOU. YOU SPOKE ABOUT DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN NEIGHBORHOOD ARCHITECTURAL STYLES, BUT I FEEL LIKE THAT DIFFERENTIATES FROM THE THESE CULTURAL DISTRICTS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. RIGHT. SO IF THERE'S NOT ARCHITECTURAL CONTROLS ON THESE CULTURAL DISTRICTS, CAN CAN YOU GIVE US EXAMPLES OF WHAT KIND OF CONTROLS THERE MIGHT THERE MIGHT BE. SO THERE CAN STILL BE ARCHITECTURAL, SO FOR INSTANCE, THERE ARE SOME IN DENVER AND IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT IN THAT THEY JUST NEED TO KEEP, SAY THEY HAVE FRONT PORCHES. ALL OF THEM HAVE DETACHED GARAGES. AND THEY, NEED TO KEEP THE FENESTRATION. SO WHERE THE WINDOWS ARE BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE MATERIAL OF THE WINDOWS, THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS WE'RE NOT TALKING DEMOGRAPHICS.
WE'RE STILL TALKING THE MATERIALS AND THE ARCHITECTURE AND STUFF. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. IT'S INTERESTING IN THE PROCESS OF COMING FORWARD WITH A HISTORIC DISTRICT IN THE FIRST PLACE, THERE WERE NO CONTROLS IN ANY OF THIS AREA. THERE WERE SPEAKING OF, INCLUDING THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IN THE 70S AND ON THROUGH, THERE WERE VERY FEW CONTROLS AND THE CONCERN ABOUT NON COMPATIBLE CONSTRUCTION WAS A BIG PART OF CREATING THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IN THE FIRST PLACE. AND WE REALIZED THE STEPS HAVE BEEN MADE TO IDENTIFY COMMUNITY BUILDING ASPECTS OF HOW THESE THINGS CAN BE DONE. CONCERNS ARE CERTAINLY THERE IN THE COMMUNITY, BUT WE HAVE A REALLY RELIABLE WAY OF SEEING THE PROPER THINGS DONE WITHOUT RESTRICTING CREATIVE CONSTRUCTION. AND I THINK IT ALL GOES TO HIGHLIGHT THE WORKS OF THE STAFF TO SHOW THE BENEFIT OF SEEING THESE DIFFERENT STYLES AND SEEING THE RELATIONSHIPS. BUT VERY FEW PEOPLE CAN SEE HOW THIS ALL PANS OUT, UNLESS THEY CAN HAVE SOME STABLE BACKGROUND. AND THESE PLANS GIVE US A STABLE BACKGROUND IN WHICH PEOPLE CAN THEN PLAN THESE NEIGHBORHOODS. IT WAS TRUE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AS IT IS NOW ORIGINALLY WE WERE HAVING MODULAR SECTIONAL HOMES MOVING IN TO SOME OF THE BETTER HOME AREAS. IT WAS A GRAVE CONCERN THAT THIS MIGHT UNDERMINE THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD AREAS, AND IT WAS AN IMPETUS TO HAVING THE HISTORIC DISTRICT CREATE IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO WE'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK, I THINK, AND MAYBE LOOKING FORWARD, WE CAN SEE THAT DEVELOP EVEN FURTHER CREATIVELY IS MY CONCERN WOULD BE TO TOM'S QUESTION EARLIER IS HOW MUCH WORK DO YOU WANT TO DO? BECAUSE IF WE EXPAND THE FOOTPRINT AND WE CREATE ADDITIONAL DISTRICTS, I'M ASKING A GROUP OF VOLUNTEERS TO VOLUNTEER TO DO A WHOLE LOT MORE, AND I'D LIKE TO HEAR THE COMMENTS FROM THE HPB ON WHERE YOU STAND AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THIS COUNCIL RECOMMENDS EXPANDING THE THIS PROGRAM, SO IT COULD BE MORE BURDENSOME ON THE VOLUNTEERS OR THE STAFF. YOU KNOW, WE STILL JUST MEET ONCE A MONTH. CHARLIE. YEAH. AND WE'RE NOT WE DON'T ALWAYS HAVE SOMETHING ON THE DOCKET. SO I DON'T IF OUR GOAL IS PRESERVATION, WHICH IS THE GOAL
[00:30:06]
OF THE BOARD AND INTO SOME DEGREE, BALANCED DEVELOPMENT AND PRESERVATION IN THE DISTRICT, I THINK IT'S BENEFICIAL TO, FOR US TO PURSUE THOSE BOUNDARIES, PUSH THOSE BOUNDARIES A LITTLE BIT.THAT IS JUST MY PERSPECTIVE. I DON'T SPEAK FOR THE WHOLE BOARD. I'LL LET BETTY DO THAT. AND I BELIEVE ME, SHE WILL. NOT REALLY, BUT I KNOW WE TO ME AND I'M SORRY, TOM, I'M JUST GOING TO SAY I, I DON'T SEE IT AS AN ADDITIONAL BURDEN, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU. I THINK IT'S I THINK IT'S A DUTY. IT'S A RESPONSIBILITY, YES. IT'S WHY YOU HAVE A BOARD IN THE FIRST PLACE. THAT'S IT. YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATIONS LIKE. AND, AND SO THIS IS THE ONLY TYPE OF PROTECTION THIS IS, THIS IS MY OPINION. THIS IS THE ONLY TYPE OF PROTECTION THAT WE HAVE, IN PLACE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND I'M SURPRISED I WAS GOING TO ASK CASSIE TO GO BACK TO THE NUMBERS BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THE PRIORITY RATINGS. CAN YOU GO BACK TO HOW MANY WERE OUTSIDE OF THE HOD VERSUS IN THE HSA? I WAS SURPRISED BY THOSE NUMBERS. SO THE, THE IT'S A THOUSAND. LET'S SEE, THE THOUSAND 200 IS 78 ARE IN THE HOD. IS THAT THAT'S CORRECT. YES. AND 4980 ARE OUTSIDE OF THE HOD. SO I THAT NUMBER SURPRISES ME THAT WE HAVE ALMOST, WHAT, THREE TIMES, FOUR TIMES AS MANY OUTSIDE OF THE HOD. SO THEY DON'T HAVE THE REGULATIONS THAT WE DO IN HOD, WHICH I THINK THAT'S THAT'S INTERESTING. AND I WONDER, DO WE HAVE AN IDEA IF WE WERE TO EXPAND THE HOD, DO WE HAVE NUMBERS THAT WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE TO IF YOU WERE TO EXPAND IT TO? WAS THERE ANY PLACE IN THAT REPORT THAT SHOWED WHAT THE NUMBERS WOULD LOOK LIKE? YOU MEAN WITH THEIR RECOMMENDATION? YEAH, THAT WOULD BE WITHIN THE HOD, LIKE 179 PROPERTIES. I THINK, FOR THE FOUR AREAS. CASSIE, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK BACK IN THERE TO SEE WHAT NUMBERS THEY HAD. SOME OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH AGE, THOUGH, RIGHT? BECAUSE YES, PREVIOUS SURVEYS WERE WENT BACK 50 YEARS.
RIGHT WHICH WAS BUILT FOR 45 YEARS. SO SINCE 1980, ESSENTIALLY. KEEP IN MIND TOO, THAT THE GEOGRAPHIC BOUNDARIES OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND THE HSA LARGER THERE, THE SIZE OF THOSE AREAS ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. SO I JUST DID A LITTLE MATH, AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S ABOUT AN 8020 SPLIT. SO, ONLY 20% OF THE STRUCTURES ARE WITHIN THAT HOD, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, WHERE THE REMAINDER OF IT ARE IN THE OUTSIDE. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SHEER AREA, IT'S JUST THE MUCH LARGER AREA. SO WE WOULD EXPECT THAT THE NUMBER OF UNITS TO BE MORE. I THINK WHAT WAS INTERESTING TO US WAS THE NUMBER OF MEDIUM. YEAH PRIORITY STRUCTURES THAT WERE OUTSIDE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. YES. AND, COULD YOU GO BACK TO THAT SLIDE AGAIN, IF YOU DON'T MIND? YEAH BECAUSE I FOUND IT INTERESTING THAT WHICH COMES FIRST, THE CHICKEN OR THE EGG. BECAUSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE OUTSIDE THE HO HOD NON CONTRIBUTING BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ENCOURAGED OR BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT ABOUT AN EQUAL SPLIT INSIDE THE HOD AND YOU'VE GOT FAR, FAR MORE NON CONTRIBUTING OUTSIDE. AND SO WE WERE TALKING BEFORE ABOUT WHAT EFFECT IT THIS HAS. AND BECAUSE BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT WE DON'T HAVE HOAS I THINK POSSIBLY IT MIGHT BE THAT IT ENCOURAGES PEOPLE TO KEEP THEIR HOUSES UP, ENHANCE THEM. YOU BRING PEOPLE IN AND ACTUALLY HAVE AN INTEREST IN PRESERVING. MAYBE JUST THAT'S INTERESTING ACTUALLY, BECAUSE BECAUSE ON THE EAST SIDE OF MCKINNEY, YOU KNOW, THOSE HOMES ARE YOUNGER THAN A LOT OF THE HOMES HERE, AND THAT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T BEEN PROTECTED, FOR THE MOST PART, THEY'VE THEY'VE BEEN NEGLECTED BY BY THE CITY AND BY, PEOPLE WHO COME IN AND OUT OF THAT AREA, AND EVEN NOW, I MEAN, SOME OF THOSE HOMES THAT ARE, ARE ELIGIBLE TO BE, CONTRIBUTE SHOOTING RESOURCES HAVE BEEN DEMOLISHED DUE TO, YOU KNOW, NOT BEING KEPT UP, DUE TO DEVELOPERS COMING IN AND SEEING THEM AS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU KNOW, EXPANSION OR GROWTH, AND SO I THINK THAT'S AN INTERESTING POINT, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW WHAT, TOM SAID, WE DO HAVE A DUTY TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE THESE HISTORIC RESOURCES. AND I THINK
[00:35:05]
FOR ME, ESPECIALLY AS, AS A LIFELONG RESIDENT OF EAST MCKINNEY, I HAVE AN ADDITIONAL DUTY TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE THOSE RESOURCES, AND I THINK IT WOULD BE IT'S IMPERATIVE. TO, TO REMIND EVERYONE OF THAT. WHAT WHAT JOHANNA JUST SAID, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE NOT PROTECTING THESE RESOURCES, WHO WILL? WELL, I, I'D LIKE TO PIGGYBACK OFF OF WHAT YOU SAID, WHEN WE STARTED THIS, REVIEW, WE KIND OF GLANCED OVER THE, THE CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE AND WENT RIGHT TO ARCHITECTURE. AND I THINK HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS MORE THAN JUST PRESERVING BUILDINGS.IT'S ABOUT PRESERVING A PEOPLE AND THEIR CULTURE AND THEIR LIFESTYLES AND THEIR HISTORY.
AND SO I THINK THAT MAYBE THAT'S INDICATIVE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING. WE'RE LOOKING MORE AT THE BUILDING AND NOT ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO PUT THOSE BUILDINGS IN PLACE AND WHAT THEY CONTRIBUTED NOT ONLY TO OUR CITY, BUT TO OUR SOCIETY AND OUR STATE. JUST AN OPINION. SO THE BENEFIT OF THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT THAT WE HAVE NOW, I LIVED THERE BEFORE THERE WAS SUCH, IT WAS JUST OLD PART OF TOWN AND, THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT GETTING THAT, MONIKER, LIVING THERE WITH UNDER THE GUIDELINES AND THE RULES, EVERYBODY HAS A BETTER FEELING ABOUT THE OLDER PART OF TOWN, I MOVED THERE INITIALLY BECAUSE THE ONLY PLACE I COULD AFFORD A HOUSE AND I MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD THE ONE I LIVE IN NOW IF I HAD TO BUY IT AGAIN. BUT, EVERYONE IS FEELING ABOUT THEIR HOUSE, THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S MUCH, MUCH HIGHER THAN IT'S EVER BEEN BECAUSE OF THAT. YES, YOU HAVE GOT TWO QUESTIONS. ONE, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE WHERE IT SHOWS WHAT HAS CHANGED, IN THIS THE MAP WHERE IT SHOWS WHAT HAS CHANGED. AND I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS THIS FROM THE 2015 SURVEY OR IS THIS A COMBINATION OF THE 2015 AND THE ONE PRIOR? BECAUSE THE 2015 ONLY DID THE HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT CORRECT? YEAH 2015 STAYED WITHIN THAT. THAT WAS AN IN-HOUSE SURVEY THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT SMALLER, THIS, THIS SHOULD BE FROM THE 2015 SURVEY.
OKAY. SO THIS IS A THEORETICAL QUESTION, BUT THE NUMBER OF ONES THAT ARE GOING FROM HIGH TO OR FROM MEDIUM TO LOW, LIKE IN THE SURVEY, IT SHOWS A BUILDING THAT HAS A DOWNTOWN BUILDING THAT HAS HAD PRETTY SIGNIFICANT FACADE ALTERATIONS. WHAT WOULD WHAT IS NOT BEING DONE, OR WHAT IS NOT LAID OUT THERE AS AN INCENTIVE TO PROTECT AGAINST LOSING SOME OF THOSE FROM A HIGHER TO A LOWER STANDARD ORDERED, AND WHAT COULD BE DONE TO, TO PREVENT THAT? I MEAN, WE'VE GOT THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND THOSE TYPES OF THINGS, AND THERE'S A REASONABILITY TO ALL OF THIS. BUT BUT ARE THERE OTHER INCENTIVES THAT CAN BE LAID OUT THERE THAT PREVENT THAT EROSION OR THAT DETERIORATION IN PRIORITY LEVELS OF INDIVIDUAL PROPERTIES? OR, I MEAN, THAT'S THAT'S A THAT'S NOT ONE I NEED AN ANSWER TO. I'M JUST SAYING, LIKE, YEAH, I THINK ON THE INCENTIVE SIDE, YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. WE HAVE THE HOUSES, OF COURSE, SOME OF THESE ARE NONRESIDENTIAL. SO WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE SAME HAS TAX EXEMPTIONS FOR NON-RES. BUT WE DO HAVE THE TOURS WHICH ENCOMPASSES SOME OF THIS AREA. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN A CHALLENGE FOR THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS PROCESS IS THAT THERE WHAT WE WHAT WE REVIEW THROUGH THAT PROCESS IS THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, WHICH ARE VERY BROAD, WE DO NOT HAVE DESIGN GUIDELINES CURRENTLY WITHIN THE CITY OF MCKINNEY OR THE HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT. SO SOMETIMES CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING TO THESE PROPERTIES ARE BECAUSE THEY MAY BE INTRODUCING AN INCOMPATIBLE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE ONTO THEIR HOME, OR MAYBE THEY'RE DOING A MASH UP OF A GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE, A RANCH STYLE WITH A CRAFTSMAN IN, AND THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WILL START TO CHIP AWAY AT THE PRIORITY RATING. A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE SEE THAT PRIORITY RATING AND THEY THINK, OH, IT'S JUST BECAUSE IT'S SUPER OLD. BUT
[00:40:01]
I THINK CASSIE DID A NICE JOB OF WALKING THROUGH. IT'S NOT JUST THE AGE, IT'S THE ARCHITECTURAL, QUALITY THAT'S MAINTAINED AS AS WELL AS SOME OF THE HISTORY, YOU KNOW, THE MAYOR'S HOUSE, FROM, YOU KNOW, 1942, THAT MAY HAVE A LOT OF CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE FOR THE CITY, AND SO THAT ALSO FEEDS INTO WHY SOME OF THOSE RATINGS MAYBE GO UP OR DOWN. THE ONE I REMEMBER LOOKING AT WAS JUST ONE OF THE LITTLE SLIM INFILL DOWNTOWN BUILDINGS, AND IT LOOKS MUCH BETTER NOW THAN IT DID WHEN IT WAS A HIGHER PRIORITY. AND SO I LIKE I'M GLAD IT CHANGED. I'M GLAD THEY HAVE BIGGER WINDOWS AND IT LOOKS BETTER, BUT I GUESS AND THAT'S THE BALANCE, RIGHT? WE TALK ABOUT THAT ALL THE TIME.IMPROVEMENT IS ALWAYS IMPROVEMENT, AND I THINK IT IS TO BE EXPECTED. MCKINNEY IS NOT UNIQUE IN THE FACT THAT SOME OF THESE RATINGS GO UP AND SOME OF THEM GO DOWN OVER TIME. THAT'S THE BALANCE THAT WE HAVE TO TRY AND NAVIGATE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE STILL A VIBRANT REDEVELOPING DOWNTOWN, BUT ALSO SOME OF THESE HIGHER PRIORITY BUILDINGS HAVING A LITTLE BIT MORE CLARITY, MAYBE ON WHAT IS APPROPRIATE AND NOT APPROPRIATE, FROM AN ARCHITECTURAL STYLE SO THAT IT CAN MAINTAIN THAT HISTORIC, PRESERVATION PRIORITY WHILE ALSO STILL GETTING, YOU KNOW, REHABBED AND LOOKING BETTER, OTHER QUESTION HAD TO DO WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS, AND I GUESS ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE CLG WAS JUST HOW THERE'S NOT A LOT OF PROACTIVE TOOLS THAT EXIST, AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS SEEM TO INTRODUCE MAYBE A NEED TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE PROACTIVE, ESPECIALLY WITH THE UNDER-TOLD STORY MARKERS OR NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF THE DISTRICT AND, EXPANSION. LIKE I THINK PATRICK ALLUDED TO THIS FROM A STAFF PERSPECTIVE. LIKE WHAT IS WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, IS THAT SOMETHING WE CAN DO? IT'S JUST THE, THE, THE WHOLE SETUP OF THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN REACTIVE AND THERE'S ALWAYS AN UNDERTONE OF DESIRE FOR THERE TO BE SOME PROACTIVE. HOW DO WE ACCOMPLISH THAT? YEAH, I THINK THE UNDER-TOLD STORIES IS A GREAT ONE, SOME OF THE PARTNERSHIPS THAT WE ARE, BUILDING WITH THE LIBRARIES AND GETTING A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A PRESENCE ONLINE SO THAT WE ARE MORE, OUTREACH FOCUSED ON SOME OF THE FINDINGS OF THIS REPORT. AND WHAT HISTORIC PRESERVATION MEANS IN MCKINNEY, I THINK FROM A, PROACTIVE AND A REGULATORY STANDPOINT, THAT'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE ALL HAVE TONIGHT IS IF YOU WOULD LIKE FOR STAFF TO TAKE A DEEPER DIVE INTO WHAT WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CULTURAL DISTRICT AND A HISTORIC DISTRICT? WHAT ARE SOME OF THE AREAS THAT THAT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE FOR THOSE THINGS, AND GIVING YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE MEAT BEHIND THAT. THAT'S SORT OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IN TERMS OF DIRECTION TONIGHT IS IF THERE'S AN INTEREST IN THAT, WE CAN COME BACK WITH A LOT MORE RECOMMENDATIONS ON WHAT THOSE THINGS MIGHT LOOK LIKE, IN ADDITION TO MORE PROACTIVE INCENTIVES, GRANT PROGRAMS, RESOURCES FROM THE STATE, THAT MIGHT BE AVAILABLE TO HELP CONTINUE THE PRESERVATION OF THIS. WHAT THIS STUDY KIND OF UNCOVERED FOR US. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT. AND ALSO SOME ADDITIONS IN TERMS OF THE OUTREACH TO THE COMMUNITY OUTSIDE OF THE LIBRARY AND ONLINE SOURCES, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO COME CROSS HIGHWAY FIVE, RIGHT? THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GO ONLINE.
WHAT IS THE STRATEGY MOVING FORWARD SO THAT WE REALLY CAN GET THE EDUCATION OUT THERE? OKAY ABSOLUTELY. AND ALONG THAT LINES, I'D BE CURIOUS TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF A DEEPER DIVE BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GREAT POINT, MR. BELLER BROUGHT UP BECAUSE THERE WAS ACTUALLY, IF MY CALCULATIONS WERE CORRECT, 33 DECREASED. LIKE IN OTHER WORDS, THEY THEY WENT FROM HIGH TO MEDIUM HIGH TO NON, OR MEDIUM TO LOW, AND ONLY 23 INCREASE. AND BE INTERESTING JUST TO SEE IF WE COULD SEE THE HISTORY BEHIND THOSE. LIKE WHAT CAUSED THEM TO DECREASE. BECAUSE CERTAINLY WITH ALL OF THE EFFORT THAT THE CITY AND THE BOARDS HAVE BEEN PUTTING INTO THIS, WHY ARE THEY DECREASING IN PRIORITY? THEY SHOULD, WITH ALL OF THE EFFORT WE'RE PUTTING IN AS AS A CITY TEAM HERE, IT SHOULD BE NOT DROPPING THAT MUCH IN MY OPINION. SO IT'D BE INTERESTING TO KIND OF FIND OUT WHAT'S THE HISTORY, WHAT'S HAPPENING TO CAUSE THIS IF WE, YOU KNOW, POSSIBLE ARE THE OWNERS OF THESE PROPERTIES, GIVEN THE RESULTS OF THE SURVEY, LIKE IS THERE SOMETHING THAT GOES OUT TO THE RESIDENTS, ESPECIALLY FOR THE ONES THAT HAVE HAD A DECREASE IN THEIR STATUS? IS THERE ANY IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO? HOW DIFFICULT IS THAT TO, IF YOU WE MIGHT NEED TO LOOK INTO HOW TO COMMUNICATE THAT, WHETHER IT'S A MAILER OR EVEN IF IT'S SOMETHING POSTED ONLINE, WHICH I KNOW WE WANT TO TRY AND DO A LITTLE BIT MORE PERSONAL, WE GIVE IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND GIVING US SOME TIME TO EXPLORE HOW WE COULD MANEUVER THAT, WE CERTAINLY COULD. I JUST WONDER, FOR THOSE WHO DO OWN IT AND DIDN'T, THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT
[00:45:02]
THEIR STATUS CHANGE. WOULD THAT INCENTIVIZE THEM TO INVEST IN SOME REHABILITATION OF THEIR PROPERTY, OR MAYBE EVEN THERE? THERE WOULD BE RESOURCES OUT THERE THAT COULD HELP THEM DO THAT. I MEAN, MAYBE THEY'RE AT THIS POINT OLDER. IT WAS QUITE A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN THE OTHER SURVEY WAS DONE, AND WE'VE GOTTEN ON IN AGE AND THEY'RE HAVING TROUBLE, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THAT. AND THEN JUST HAVING THE STAFF PREPARED TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW TO IMPROVE THEIR STATUS FOR THE NEXT GO ROUND. WHICH LEADS TO MY NEXT QUESTION. I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT WAS THE INVESTMENT IN THIS SURVEY, AND KIND OF GET SOME FEEDBACK FROM STAFF IN TERMS OF BECAUSE I HEARD FIVE YEARS VERSUS TEN YEARS, I PERSONALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE FIVE YEARS BECAUSE I THINK IT KEEPS THE CONVERSATION VERY CURRENT. AND AT THE FOREFRONT OF OUR MINDS.SO, BUT I KNOW SOME OF THAT MAY BE TO BUDGETING ISSUES. SO I JUST WANTED TO KNOW WHAT THE INVESTMENT WAS FOR THIS, DO YOU REMEMBER IT WAS SOMEWHERE IN THE 1 TO 150 RANGE? IS THAT RIGHT? THAT IS DEFINITELY CORRECT. SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 100 TO 150,000, I THINK WITH THE CLG YOU CAN GET RESOURCES, BUT I THINK IT'S A MAX OF WHAT, 15 KS? I DON'T KNOW THE MAX, BUT THAT IS CORRECT. THAT IS ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF THE CLG STATUS IS YOU GET A LOT MORE FUNDING, SUPPORT FOR THINGS LIKE THIS. YEAH, YEAH, AND I WOULD SAY, 5 TO 10 YEARS IS, NOT NECESSARILY A MAGIC NUMBER. THE ONE THING I WOULD CAUTION ON THE FIVE YEARS IS SOMETIMES THERE'S NOT ENOUGH CHANGE TO REALLY GET A GOOD RECAPTURE. SO TEN YEARS MAY BE A SWEET SPOT. CASSIE'S PROBABLY CRINGING BECAUSE SHE'D LOVE TO DO IT MORE FREQUENTLY, BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IF WE ARE DOING IT IN A, IN A ROUTINE SETTING THAT WE'RE GETTING ENOUGH CHANGE FROM SURVEY TO SURVEY, THAT IT IS WORTH THAT TIME AND INVESTMENT FROM THE CITY. WHAT I'LL ALSO OFFER IS THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF SURVEY, SO FOR THIS ONE IN PARTICULAR, THE H OVERLAY, SINCE THAT'S BEEN SURVEYED MULTIPLE TIMES THROUGHOUT THE YEARS, IT GOT WHAT'S CALLED A RECONNAISSANCE LEVEL SURVEY, AND THE OTHERS GOT MORE OF AN INTENSIVE LEVEL LOOK. SO THERE'S ALWAYS THE OPTION OF HAVING DIFFERENT LEVELS OF SURVEY DONE. SO MAYBE IN FIVE YEARS, A LITTLE LESS INTENSIVE SURVEY MIGHT BE WARRANTED. AND WHEN WE IF WE EXCUSE ME, COME BACK WITH THAT DEEPER DIVE, WE CAN DEFINITELY COME BACK WITH SOME OF THOSE LEVELS AND RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE TIMING SO WE CAN GET SOME MORE CLARITY AROUND IT. SO I JUST SO THERE ARE SOME OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE UNDERTOLD AND THE OFFICIAL TEXAS HISTORIC MARKERS. I THINK THAT'S FANTASTIC, AND THAT'S CERTAINLY WORTH PURSUING. ALSO ON THE BLACK AND HISPANIC AREAS, YOU KNOW, THEY THEY SAY, HEY, THIS IS A GOOD IDEA, BUT THERE'S NO SPECIFIC STEPS OR ANYTHING. SO I'D BE CURIOUS IF THERE ARE OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE DONE THIS THAT HAVE MADE THESE STEPS, IF THAT CAN PROVIDE ANY GUIDANCE IN TERMS OF WHAT OUR WAY FORWARD IS AND HOW WE'D GO ABOUT EDUCATION, YOU KNOW, WHO, WHAT, WHEN. SO ANYWAY, I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GREAT POINT ALONG THAT LINE, HISTORIC DISTRICT. OAK CLIFF, MID-CENTURY MODERN IS A STANDARD FOR HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AND WE LOOK AT OUR VAST NUMBERS. YOU MENTIONED IN THE SURVEY OF HIS MID-CENTURY MODERN HOMES, WHICH ARE VERY ATTRACTIVE IN THEIR OWN RIGHT. IT BECOMES AN OPPORTUNITY, AS DOES THE EAST MCKINNEY OPPORTUNITY, TO SEE THAT VERY OLD PARKTO TOWN RENEW A SENSE OF WHO WHO IT IS AND WHAT IT IS, BECAUSE IT IS ONE OF THE OLDER PARTS OF TOWN WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THOSE, BUT IT GIVES A SENSE OF ENTHUSIASM TO THE RESIDENTS TO KNOW THEY'RE NOT JUST ALONE IN THIS PROCESS, AND TO REALIZE THERE'S VALUE THAT THEY SEE THAT OTHERS SEE. I WOULD SAY ALSO, IT KIND OF GOES BACK TO THE POINT THAT DOCTOR FELTUS MADE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, BEING INTENTIONAL WITH OUTREACH.
THAT I KNOW THAT'S A POINT OF CONTENTION BETWEEN THE CITY AND EAST MCKINNEY, JUST ONGOING, BUT , YOU KNOW, THOSE COMMUNICATION EFFORTS TO MAKE THEM REALLY INTENTIONAL, AND ALSO REALLY FOCUSED ON EDUCATION AND SHARING . I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS ON OUR BOARD, BEFORE, IS THAT THE, THE PRESERVATION INCENTIVES ARE NOT WELL KNOWN, OUTSIDE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND ESPECIALLY IN EAST MCKINNEY, LIKE I SAID, THAT AREA IS YOUNGER, WELL, ARCHITECTURALLY, BUT IT'S, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF THAT THOSE OPPORTUNITIES ARE AVAILABLE, AND IT ALSO, I THINK TO YOUR POINT, DOCTOR FELTUS, THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SHARE THE RESULTS OF THE SURVEY WITH PEOPLE WHOSE, WHOSE HOMES THEIR STATUS HAVE HAS DECREASED. IT WOULD ALSO BE, REALLY VALUABLE, I THINK, TO SHARE THE RESULTS OF THIS SURVEY WITH PEOPLE WHO NOW ARE ELIGIBLE FOR, FOR THOSE INCENTIVES AND, EVEN THOSE WHO ARE ELIGIBLE FOR MARKERS FOR UNDERTOLD MARKERS OR HISTORIC MARKERS, SPECIFICALLY, I KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT HOLY
[00:50:06]
FAMILY CHURCH, THAT'S A PLACE IN LA LOMA THAT, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF, STRIFE IN THAT AREA, RECENTLY, JUST WITH THE, THE CONGREGATION, I GUESS, AND IT WOULD BE REALLY VALUABLE. I THINK, TO SHARE THE, THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT BUILDING AND THAT THAT PLACE, BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. I'D LIKE TO MAKE ONE FINAL COMMENT TO THE BOARD THAT I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE ENFORCEABILITY OF YOUR EXPANSION AND WHAT IT WOULD DO IN REGARD TO TIM'S COMMENTS AS FAR AS RESOURCE USES THAT ARE BEING DRAWN FROM THE CITY'S BUDGET AND WHAT THE TAXPAYERS CONSIDER A PRIORITY. AND I JUST WANT TO LEAVE YOU WITH THAT THOUGHT, IN THE EVENT WE DISCUSS THIS FURTHER AND I THINK WE WILL, BUT I BELIEVE WE'VE EXHAUSTED ALL THE TIME THAT WE HAVE ON THIS THIS EVENING. I WANT TO THANK EACH OF YOU FOR CONTRIBUTE, PUTTING IN ALL THAT YOU DO ON BEHALF OF THE CITY. SO THANK YOU. CHARLIE, CAN I CAN I SAY ONE THING? I WANTED HIS DECISION, NOT MINE. ONE THING I WANTED TO COMMEND YOU FOR THE RESOURCES THAT YOU PUT TOWARDS THIS, BECAUSE I THINK THIS SURVEY IS REALLY IMPORTANT. AND, I THINK IT'S EVEN MORE IMPORTANT NOW BECAUSE WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF DOING A JOB SEARCH FOR PLANNING MANAGER, DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT AND PRESERVATION. AND I THINK THAT BY WHAT YOU'VE COMMITTED TO DO THIS SURVEY, IT'S IT TELLS TO WHOEVER'S COMING IN THAT AND I'VE EXPRESSED CONCERN ABOUT THAT. WE HAVE ONE PERSON DOING ALL OF THOSE THINGS. AND BUT I THINK THAT IT WILL TELL THIS PERSON THAT HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS IMPORTANT TO US AS A COMMUNITY AND AS A COUNCIL. AND I KNOW THAT WE HAVE WE HAVE MANY CHALLENGES BECAUSE WE HAVE WE ARE HIGH GROWTH AND BUT IT IS IMPORTANT, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO THE COMMUNITY, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR SUPPORT OF WHAT Y'ALL HAVE DONE. THANK YOU. YOU WANT TO CLARIFY, JENNIFER? YOU LOOKED UP. I LOOKED UP HERE AND YOU SAID THE MAYOR'S HOUSE, 1942. YOU MEANT MAYOR PRO TEM. HE WAS MUCH OLDER. HE WAS I WAS I WAS THOUGHT IN ANYONE'S MIND. I WAS CURIOUS WHAT RESTRICTIONS WE COULD START PLACING ON YOUR HOUSE SO THAT WE CAN MAINTAIN THE CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE. SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO SEE, SOME YOU CAN'T SEE. I DO WANT TO COMPLIMENT YOU. I DON'T KNOW THAT I'VE EVER BEEN SO KINDLY REFERRED TO AS OLD. THANK YOU. HISTORIC VINTAGE. YOU HAVE ANOTHER MEETING. CITY COUNCIL MEETING? THAT'S TO BE STARTING IN A FEW MINUTES, SO I WILL ASK FOR A MOTION TO ADJOURN ON THIS SIDE. SO MOVED SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AND I'LL ASK FOR THE HBA MEETING TO BE ADJOURNED. I HAVE A MOTION. I MOVED, OKAY, SECOND. ALL RIGHT. OKAY THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. EMPRESS, YOU'LL* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.