[CALL TO ORDER]
[00:00:06]
TO THE CITY OF MCKINNEY'S HISTORIC PRESERVATION ADVISORY BOARD MEETING OF NOVEMBER THE SEVENTH, 2024. THE BOARD MEMBERS THAT YOU SEE SEATED BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING HAVE BEEN APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL, AND WE SERVE AT THE PLEASURE OF THE CITY COUNCIL. I ALSO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE CARRIE KENNEDY. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT, CARRIE. SHE'S SHE'S AN ALTERNATE. SO WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE TONIGHT. IF YOU ARE HERE THIS EVENING AND WISH TO SPEAK DURING A PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION, PLEASE COMPLETE A SPEAKER'S CARD. STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD AND LIMIT YOUR REMARKS TO THREE MINUTES. WE ASK THAT YOU BE CONCISE IN YOUR COMMENTS AND SPEAK ONLY ONCE, IF NECESSARY, TO CLARIFY OR TO ANSWER QUESTIONS AUDIENCE. CITY STAFF WILL BE CALLED TO RESPOND TO ANY QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED BY THOSE IN THE AUDIENCE. THE BOARD REQUESTS THAT WE ALL TREAT EACH OTHER WITH RESPECT. FOCUS ON THE ISSUES, BE CONCISE IN YOUR COMMENTS. WE ALL WANT TO ACT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF ALL THE CITIZENS OF MCKINNEY, WHILE MAINTAINING THE HERITAGE AND
[Election of the Chair and Vice-Chair]
HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. ITEM NUMBER 24-2129. ELECTION OF THE CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR. WE WILL MOVE ON. WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE ELECTION OF THE CHAIR FOR THIS TERM. AND IF YOU WOULD ALLOW ME TO SAY SOMETHING REAL QUICK, I THIS IS MY LAST YEAR TO SIT ON THE BOARD AND I HAVE ENJOYED SERVING AS THE CHAIR, BUT I THINK IT'S PROBABLY TIME FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO COME UP HERE AND DO THE DO WHAT I'VE DONE. I, TIM MCWILLIAMS, HAS SERVED AS A VICE CHAIR AND HE IS. HE CALLED ME AND HE IS SICK TONIGHT AND SO HE TOLD ME THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO RECOMMEND TOM PENCE TO TAKE ON THE CHAIRPERSON. SO IF, IF YOU WILL ALLOW ME, I WANT TO MAKE A MOTION THAT SINCE TIM IS NOT HERE TONIGHT, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THE MOTION THAT WE ELECT TOM PENCE AS OUR CHAIR FOR THIS TERM. SO I HAVE A MOTION. WOULD ANYBODY ELSE LIKE TO THROW THEIR NAME ON THE MOTION? OKAY, I HAVE A SECOND TO THAT MOTION BY JAMES WEST. ANY DISCUSSION OR ANY ANYONE ELSE WANT TO SAY ANYTHING? I BROUGHT YOU PEANUTS TO. OKAY, SO WE HAVE A MOTION BY MISS PETKOVSEK. WE HAVE A SECOND BY JAMES WEST. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? IF YOU WOULD PLEASE JUST CAST YOUR VOTES AND LET'S SEE IF WE CAN GET THESE TO WORK. AND MINE IS BLANK. THERE WE GO.THERE WE GO. TO THE NEXT PAGE. I CAN'T FIND THAT ONE. YOU'RE GETTING ANY ACTION ON IT? I'M NOT. OH, OKAY. OKAY, LET'S DO IT BY HAND. SO, ALL IN FAVOR OF FOR TOM PENCE TO SERVE AS THE CHAIR, PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. OPPOSED? OKAY. OKAY. TOM. TOM, SHOULDN'T YOU HAVE RECUSED? SHOULDN'T YOU HAVE RECUSED YOURSELF FROM VOTING? CASSIE JUST SUBMITTED HER RESIGNATION. OKAY, SO I'M GOING TO LET YOU TAKE OVER. THEN I HAVE TO TAKE OVER. YEAH, I THINK SO. ISN'T THAT RIGHT? LET'S DO IT. YOU'RE THE CHAIR. THE NEWLY ELECTED CHAIR HERE. DO YOU WANT TO SWITCH? OH, NO.
DON'T SWITCH BECAUSE. OKAY. THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. KIDDING. HERE. TAKE THIS. TOM. YEAH. THAT I HAVE SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE THIS. OH! TWO. ALL RIGHT. THE NEXT MOTION, WE'LL MOVE FOR THE ELECTION OF THE VICE CHAIR. TIM MCWILLIAMS HAS SERVED IN THIS ROLE FOR THE LAST, ACTUALLY, SEVERAL TERMS AS I, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, IS THERE A MOTION WOULD ANYBODY LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION OR DISCUSSION WITH REGARD TO WHO WILL BE THE VICE CHAIR? WELL, I'LL, I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT I MAKE THE MOTION THAT MEGAN ESCAMILLA SERVE AS VICE CHAIR. I SECOND THAT. YEAH.
ALL RIGHT. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL RIGHT. PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE. AND I GUESS WE'RE GOING TO DO A VOTE BY HAND. YES. ALL IN FAVOR OF MEGAN ESCAMILLA AS BEING THE VICE CHAIR, PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. THAT WAS A LITTLE AGGRESSIVE. I'M SORRY. MOTION CARRIES. DOES THAT MEAN I GET TO SIT BY TOM? DOES THAT MEAN DOES THAT MEAN WE GET TO SIT NEXT TO EACH OTHER NOW? ONLY IF YOU WANT TO. ACTUALLY, TIM USUALLY SITS OVER HERE, BUT YEAH, BETTY DOES THAT ON PURPOSE. YEAH. YEAH. SHE'S VERY TALKATIVE. ALL RIGHT, MOVING ON TO THE NEXT ITEM. DO
[00:05:04]
WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS ON THE NON PUBLIC HEARING AGENDA ITEMS? NOPE. ALL RIGHT. WELL WE[CONSENT ITEMS]
WILL MOVE ON TO THE CONSENT AGENDA. THE FIRST ITEM IS ITEM NUMBER 24 2130. THE MINUTES OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION ADVISORY BOARD REGULAR MEETING OF OCTOBER 3RD, 2024. DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA? I SO MOVED NOTE THAT JAMES WEST HAS MADE THE MOTION.DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I SECOND. MARCIA HAS MADE THE SECOND. IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE MINUTES, PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. JORDAN, YOU'RE WITH US. THANK YOU. MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY. ALL RIGHT. WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE
[Certificate of Appropriateness Training]
DISCUSSION ITEMS. THE FIRST ITEM IS NUMBER HP 2024, DASH 2131. DISCUSSION OF THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS PROCESS. CASSIE BUMGARNER WILL MAKE A PRESENTATION AND EDUCATE ALL OF US. THANK YOU. CASSIE, FOR TAKING THE TIME TO DO THIS. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. SO TONIGHT I JUST WANTED TO DO A KIND OF BRIEF PRESENTATION ON CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS, JUST KIND OF GOING OVER THE PROCESS. WHEN DOES IT APPLY THAT SORT OF THING? I DON'T KNOW IF OUR CLICKER WORKS TONIGHT. OH. HOLD ON. WE HAVE TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES. OKAY, WELL, WE ALWAYS THANK YOU. SO WITH HISTORIC PRESERVATION AND DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT, THERE ARE QUITE A FEW ORDINANCES THAT OUR PROGRAM HAS. THE ONE THAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT TONIGHT IS CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. SO IN THIS AREA YOU'LL SEE THE KIND OF TREE SHAPE, THE KIND OF BROWN ANYWHERE THAT YOU'RE DOING OR ANYTIME YOU'RE DOING EXTERIOR ALTERATIONS IN THAT AREA, YOU WOULD NEED A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. SO THERE'S A FEW DIFFERENT REASONS WHY WE DO A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENES. THIS IS KIND OF MORE THE PHILOSOPHY BEHIND IT. IT'S TO FOSTER CIVIC PRIDE. IT'S TO MAKE SURE THAT THE WE MAINTAIN THE ATTRACTIVENESS TO VISITORS AND THE ECONOMIC BENEFITS. IT'S TO ENSURE THAT DEVELOPMENT AS WELL AS RENOVATIONS ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE CITY. AS WELL AS WE WANT TO STABILIZE AND IMPROVE THE VALUES OF THE PROPERTIES, THERE. SO WHAT NEEDS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS? SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THAT TREE PICTURE, THERE WERE TWO SIDES. THERE WAS THE BROWN PORTION AND THEN THE BLUE. THE BLUE SIDE IS THE COMMERCIAL AREA. SO ANY EXTERIOR MODIFICATION IN THAT BLUE AREA REQUIRES A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. SO THAT'S WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT OUR COMMERCIAL AREAS. THAT'S PAINT MURALS, SIGNAGE, WINDOWS, DOORS, FENCES, ADDITIONS ANY PARTIAL DEMOLITIONS THAT SORT OF THING. ROOFING. ALL OF THAT REQUIRES A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. WHEN YOU'RE IN THE RESIDENTIAL AREA, THERE IS A CAVEAT TO THAT, WHICH IS THAT ANY EXTERIOR MODIFICATION THAT'S VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. THAT ALSO INCLUDES ALLEYS. IF YOU EVER DRIVE DOWN IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, THERE ARE A BUNCH OF SMALL ALLEYS THAT YOU DON'T THINK OF, BUT IF IT'S VISIBLE FROM THAT, THAT WOULD ALSO NEED A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENES. SO THIS IS JUST KIND OF A SYMBOLIZED FLOWCHART OF THE COA PROCESS. THERE CAN BE A PRE-APPLICATION MEETING AND THEN THAT COA NEEDS TO BE OFFICIALLY SUBMITTED. AND OUR CITIZEN SELF SERVICE PORTAL. THEN THAT'S WHEN STAFF IS GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT. STAFF WILL GO BACK AND FORTH WITH THE APPLICANT THROUGH THE PORTAL. IF THEY'RE IF IT'S IN THE RESIDENTIAL AREA AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT STAFF CAN APPROVE, THEN WE GO AHEAD AND APPROVE IT. IF STAFF SEES ANYTHING THAT WE CAN'T COME TO AN AGREEMENT WITH THE HOMEOWNER ABOUT, THAT'S WHEN IT GETS FORWARDED TO THE BOARD. THE OTHER ONE THAT GETS FORWARDED TO THE BOARD IS ALL DEMOLITIONS ARE FORWARDED TO THE BOARD. ONCE HPB REVIEWS IT, YOU GET TO MAKE THE DECISION ON THAT. AND THEN IF SOMEONE DOESN'T AGREE WITH THAT, THEN THEY CAN APPEAL THAT TO CITY COUNCIL. AND THEN ANY DECISION THAT I MAKE AS THE HPO CAN ACTUALLY BE APPEALED TO THE HPB. REVIEW AND EVALUATION. SO THIS SLIDE IS JUST PRIMARILY ABOUT HOW DO WE REVIEW THOSE. SO[00:10:09]
APPROVAL OF WORK TO THE EXTERIOR OF PROPERTIES THAT'S VISIBLE FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY IS WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT PRIMARILY REVIEWED BY ME. AS THE HPO OR AS THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION PLANNER APPEALS THEN GO TO THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION ADVISORY BOARD. IF IT'S A DECISION MADE BY HPB, THEN IT GOES TO CITY COUNCIL. ALL OF THIS IS REQUIRED PRIOR TO A BUILDING PERMIT. SO IF A PROPERTY COMES IN FOR SOMETHING AND THEY GO DIRECTLY TO BUILDING PERMIT, BUILDING PERMITS WILL OR BUILDING INSPECTIONS WILL ACTUALLY FLAG THAT AND STOP THE PERMIT PROCESS UNTIL WE'VE DONE OUR PART. SO CONSIDERATIONS FOR REVIEW. THERE ARE THREE MAIN THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT WHEN WE'RE REVIEWING ANY SORT OF CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. THAT'S THE PRESERVATION PRIORITY. THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS. AND THEN THE CHECKLIST OF DESIGN ELEMENTS. I THINK BECAUSE YOU CLICKED ON THE. OUR TECHNOLOGY IS VERY FINICKY TONIGHT. DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. SO THE PRESERVATION PRIORITY RATINGS, THEY CAN EITHER BE HIGH MEDIUM LOW OR NONCONTRIBUTING. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT HIGH THAT'S GOING TO BE A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION TO THE HISTORY OR A PRISTINE EXAMPLE. MEDIUM COULD HAVE SOME ALTERATIONS. BUT THE CHANGES ARE PROBABLY READILY REVERSIBLE. LOW MEANS THAT IT'S USUALLY JUST QUALIFYING BY AGE ALONE.NONCONTRIBUTING WOULD BE IT'S EITHER NOT OVER 50 YEARS OF AGE OR IT'S JUST COMPLETELY CHANGED.
MAYBE THEY KEPT, YOU KNOW, JUST THE FOUNDATION. SO THEN THE BIG ONE THAT WE TALK ABOUT IS SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS. WHEN I'M REVIEWING THINGS, THERE'S I TAKE ALL OF THE STANDARDS AND THEN I APPLY EACH ONE AND GIVE SOME SORT OF COMMENT ABOUT IT. SO THESE TWO SLIDES, YOU'VE GOT ONE THROUGH FIVE HERE AND THEN SIX THROUGH TEN. I'M NOT GOING TO READ THEM ALL TO YOU, BUT THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS ESSENTIALLY IS TAKING IT'S MAKING YOU EVALUATE THESE PROPOSED ALTERATIONS AND HOW MUCH THEY'RE GOING TO CHANGE THAT PROPERTY.
HOW MUCH CHANGE CAN IT WITHSTAND BEFORE. YOU CAN'T TELL THAT IT'S A HISTORIC PROPERTY. THE ONES WE USE MOST OFTEN ARE ACTUALLY NINE. AND TEN. SO THAT WOULD BE MAKE SURE THAT IT DOESN'T DESTROY HISTORIC MATERIALS, FEATURES, AND SPATIAL RELATIONSHIPS. MAKE SURE THAT IT'S COMPATIBLE, BUT DIFFERENTIATED, WHICH IS A BIG ONE. AND THEN ALSO IF IT WAS REMOVED IN THE FUTURE, WOULD THE ESSENTIAL FORM AND INTEGRITY OF THE HISTORIC PROPERTY BE UNIMPAIRED? SO THAT GOES BACK TO WHEN YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT THOSE PRESERVATION PRIORITIES. A MEDIUM PRIORITY PROPERTY WOULD DEFINITELY MEET THAT. SO THEN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DEMOLITION, I KNOW THAT DEMOLITION HAS NOW COME BEFORE THE BOARD. IN THE CODE, IT STILL ASKS YOU TO REVIEW THEM BY PRESERVATION PRIORITY, THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS. AND THEN THAT CHECKLIST OF DESIGN ELEMENTS. WHAT I WILL NOTE IS THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS IS FOR REHABILITATION. IT'S NOT FOR DEMOLITION. SO WHEN YOU'RE GOING BACK AND LOOKING AT THOSE, IT'S A LOT HARDER TO APPLY NECESSARILY. BUT YOU TAKE THOSE CHECKLIST OF DESIGN ELEMENTS AND THAT'S HOW YOU TALK ABOUT THE STRUCTURE. YOU'RE RELYING ON THE PRESERVATION PRIORITY AND HOW MUCH IT'S ALREADY CHANGED. AND WHAT WOULD DEMOLITION HOW DOES THAT CHANGE THE CHARACTER OF THE AREA THAT IT'S IN? AND THEN WE DO HAVE A MAP ONLINE THAT DOES SHOW THESE COA SUBMITTALS WHEN THEY'RE SUBMITTING FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. THE REQUIRES AT A MINIMUM ARE A LETTER OF INTENT ELEVATIONS A PLAN, OR A SITE PLAN SHOWING THE LOCATION OF THE WORK, THE APPLICATION, AND THEN IMAGES OF THE PROPERTY. NOW, IF IT'S A DEMOLITION, YOU KNOW WE DON'T NEED ELEVATIONS OF A OF NOTHING. BUT WE DO RELY A LOT ON THESE. ESPECIALLY THE LETTER OF INTENT. SO, CASSIE, CAN I INTERRUPT YOU FOR A SECOND? YEAH. SO THE RED, WHEN YOU LOOK
[00:15:01]
AT THAT, THE MARKINGS UP THERE ARE THOSE THOSE ARE. SO THOSE ARE ACTUALLY JUST ALL THE PROPERTIES. SO ALL THE PROPERTIES ARE ONLINE AND YOU CAN CLICK ON THEM AND YOU CAN SEE THE PHOTOGRAPHS SAY FROM THE 1980S WHEN WE DID THAT SURVEY. IF YOU CLICK ON ONE OF THOSE RED DOTS, IT'S GOING TO SHOW YOU THE 85 PHOTOGRAPH AND THE 2005 2015. OKAY. BUT DOES THAT SHOW WHAT COA'S ARE IN THERE IS OR NOT IN PROCESS? I BELIEVE IT ONLY UPDATES MANUALLY AND THAT WOULD BE AFTER THE FACT. I DIDN'T FIND ANY THAT HAD COA'S ATTACHED. THEY HAD DATES, BUT THAT WAS IT.BUT IT HAD THE COA LIKE NUMBER ATTACHED TO IT. SO THE FURTHER BACK THEY ARE, I BELIEVE THEY DON'T SHOW THE ACTUAL DESCRIPTION OF WORK. THE NEWER ONES SHOULD SHOW THE DESCRIPTION OF WORK. BUT I CAN GET WITH OUR GIS DEPARTMENT AND MAKE SURE THAT THAT RELATIONSHIP IS WORKING. ESSENTIALLY, THE TECHNICAL PART BEHIND IT IS THAT IT'S PULLING FROM THE CS PORTAL, WHATEVER THAT APPLICANT PUTS AS THEIR DESCRIPTION, THAT'S WHAT IT SHOULD BE PULLING. IF IT'S NOT PULLING THAT CORRECTLY, I CAN DEFINITELY CHECK INTO THAT. BUT THAT ALSO MEANS THAT IF THEIR DESCRIPTION IS BLANK OR ISN'T A GREAT DESCRIPTION, THAT'S THE INFORMATION THAT IT IS PULLING. SO IT WE'RE LIMITED IN THAT REGARD. SO IT'S UNRELIABLE. IS THAT WHAT. IT'S NOT THAT. IT'S UNRELIABLE. IT'S JUST THAT WE HAVE THE INFORMATION THAT'S PULLING DIRECTLY FROM INTERGOV. WE'RE NOT MANUALLY TYPING IN EVERY CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS THAT COMES IN. SO WE HAVE A LOT. AND THIS IS JUST A QUICK SLIDE ON THE ENFORCEMENT. THIS COMES FROM THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. THERE IS THE ABILITY TO ISSUE A STOP WORK ORDER. AND THERE ARE PENALTIES FOR VIOLATIONS. FOR NOT GETTING YOUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
AND THEN I WANTED TO OPEN IT UP TO Y'ALL. WHAT DO YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS ON FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS? WHAT PARTS ARE UNCLEAR? THAT SORT OF THING. SO CASSIE ON SO WE'VE HAD A COUPLE DEMOLITIONS COME BEFORE US THE LAST TWO OF THE LAST FIVE MEETINGS OR TWO OF THE LAST FOUR MEETINGS. TECHNICALLY, THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR, SECRETARY OF INTERIOR'S STANDARDS DON'T SPECIFICALLY REPLY TO DEMOLITIONS. OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT THEY WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THEM. IS THAT A CORRECT ASSESSMENT OF THAT? AM I UNDERSTANDING THAT CORRECTLY? SO YES, THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS IS ALWAYS GOING TO SIDE ON REHABILITATION RATHER THAN DEMOLITION. NOW, AS A BOARD, YOU CAN STILL USE YOUR JUDGMENT ON, YOU KNOW, WITH THE REST OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT. SO, YOU KNOW, WE USUALLY GIVE YOU WHAT THE CONDITION IS, THE PRESERVATION PRIORITY. YOU USE ALL OF THOSE TOOLS TOGETHER TO MAKE THAT DECISION. SO WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT. A COA, DO YOU CONSIDER WHETHER IT WILL POTENTIALLY MOVE UP OR MOVE DOWN? THE PRIORITY RATING FOR THE HOUSE. YOU KNOW, IF THEY'VE GOT A MEDIUM, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO REPLACE ALL THE WINDOWS WITH ALUMINUM WINDOWS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WELL, YOU WOULDN'T APPROVE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE, BUT YOU WOULD PROBABLY SAY THAT WOULD MOVE IT DOWN TO LOW. AND THAT IN ITSELF REALLY ISN'T A GREAT REASON FOR APPROVING THE COA, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. I THINK I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. LET ME KIND OF REPHRASE IT. IF A PROPERTY COMES IN AND WANTS TO CHANGE OUT ALL OF THEIR WINDOWS, THEY'RE A MEDIUM PRIORITY. YOU'RE ASKING IF THAT WOULD CHANGE IT TO A LOW PRIORITY OR TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION, BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY NOT BE DOING THE PRIORITY RATING, YOU HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT WOULD POTENTIALLY DO TO THAT PRIORITY RATING IF THEY WERE IF YOU WERE TO APPROVE IT. I WOULD BE LOOKING AT THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS. CHANGING OUT ALL THE WINDOWS DOESN'T NECESSARILY LOWER THE PRIORITY RATING. IT CAN. BUT IT DOESN'T ALWAYS. OKAY. SO IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT YOU'RE MEASURING OUT. AND THAT'S JUST AN INDEPENDENT ASSESSMENT WE HAVE DONE BY AN EXTERNAL AUDITOR IF YOU WILL. I THINK I HAVE A QUESTION TO KIND OF PIGGYBACK OFF OF THAT. SO IF BECAUSE SOMEONE NEEDS A COA TO MAKE CHANGES, RIGHT. TO IF THEY WERE CHANGING OUT THE WINDOWS. RIGHT. SO IF THEY CAME AND THEY WERE LIKE, HEY, WE WANT TO DEMO THIS. AND IF NOT, WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE IT TO THESE WINDOWS OR SOMETHING. RIGHT. WE WOULD SAY WE DENIED THE DEMOLITION. SO THEN THEY COME BACK AND THEY'RE
[00:20:07]
LIKE, THESE ARE THE WINDOWS WE WANT TO REPLACE IT WITH. YOU STILL HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY LIKE, THAT'S NOT AN APPROPRIATE REHAB AND YOU NEED TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT. RIGHT.LIKE THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING. YEAH. THOSE WOULD BE TWO SEPARATE CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS. SO. SO WHAT WE ASKED FOR IS THAT DEMOLITION BE ITS OWN CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. AND THEN REHABILITATION PROJECTS CAN SOMETIMES BE COMBINED. BUT DEMOLITION IS USUALLY SEPARATE. A SEPARATE ONE. OKAY. YEAH, I JUST ASKED THAT BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S A VALID POINT. YOU KNOW, IF LIKE, IS IT WORTH IT TO KEEP THIS HOUSE IF IT'S JUST GOING TO LIKE LOOK A CERTAIN WAY. BUT THEN WE DO ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY DOWN THE ROAD WHEN THEY COME BACK TO MAKE A CHANGE TO, YOU KNOW, SAY THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE AND YOU SHOULD TRY SOMETHING ELSE BASICALLY. OKAY. ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT WINDOWS ON NUMBER SIX OF THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS. IT SAID BE REPAIRED RATHER THAN REPLACED WHEN THE SEVERITY OF DETERIORATION REQUIRES REPLACEMENT OR OF A DISTINCTIVE FEATURE, LIKE IF IT WAS A FOUR OVER ONE OR SOMETHING NEW FEATURE WILL MATCH THE OLD ONE IN COLOR DESIGN, COLOR, TEXTURE AND WHERE POSSIBLE, MATERIALS. SO EVEN THAT GIVES EVEN THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT'S BEEN A KIND OF A POINT IN THE PAST IS, OH, DON'T REPLACE THE WINDOWS UNLESS THEY'RE WOOD OR WHATEVER. AND I THINK THAT'S BEEN A STICKING POINT FOR SOME OF THE FOLKS THAT ARE TRYING TO RENOVATE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT'S MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT. ET CETER.
ET CETERA. WELL, THE WOOD, THE WOOD WINDOWS ARE A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE ALTERNATIVES, BUT I THINK THE, YOU KNOW, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR'S STANDARDS ARE SUGGESTIONS, OR THEY'RE RECOMMENDATIONS. THEY'RE NOT RULES. SO WE DON'T HAVE RULES.
SO IT ALL COMES DOWN TO JUDGMENT ON BEHALF OF THE HPO AND THEN THE BOARD. IF SHE SO CHOOSES TO BRING IT BEFORE US OR THE CLIENT OR THE POTENTIAL PERSON DOING THE WORK DOES. THERE'S A CONCEPT INVOLVED IN THIS THAT PERHAPS DOES REQUIRE SOME MORE DISCUSSION. IN REVIEWING PROJECTS WHICH CAME BEFORE US EARLIER ON KENTUCKY STREET IN PARTICULAR, I NOTICED THAT SOME OF THE REMODELING GOING ON INVOLVES REMOVING DAMAGED SIDING AND PUTTING BACK PLYWOOD IN ITS PLACE, AND I GO INTO THE FACT THAT IN CHARACTER AND IN FORM, THE LAP SIDING WOULD HAVE BEEN APPROPRIATE. YET I ASSUME SOME KIND OF A COA WAS ACHIEVED BY THAT DEVELOPER WHO DID THE PROPERTY FROM A CONCEPT OF RESTORATION AND REPAIR IN THIS SENSE, A COA MIGHT WELL HAVE BEEN DENIED. IT SEEMS TO ME, IF ONE WISHED TO CARRY THE CHARACTER OF THE HOUSE FORWARD IN A PROPER WAY. I THINK WE'VE SEEN THAT PARTICULAR HOUSE. I THINK THERE ARE WAYS IN WHICH YOU CAN DEPRECIATE AN HISTORIC DISTRICT. IF YOU DON'T CAPTURE THESE FEATURES IN THE HOUSE IN THE RESTORATION, I THINK ALL OF US SEE THAT. AND I THINK WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS, THOUGH, THEY'RE NOT BINDING RULES, THEY DO PLAY. IN YOUR REVIEW FOR THE COA, I THINK THAT'S FAIRLY STATED.
CONCERN IS THAT OFTENTIMES SECOND RATE ARE REALLY INAPPROPRIATE. THINGS OCCUR IN AN EXPEDIENT APPROACH TO THIS. I REALLY LIKE YOUR APPROACH, WHERE WE'RE VERY SCRUPULOUS ABOUT THE WAY THINGS ARE DONE SO AS TO ENCOURAGE THE RIGHT THINGS AND THAT'S WHAT I NEED TO SAY. YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO. CASSIE, IN THE WE HAVE LOOKED AT SOME DEMOLITION IN OUR PAST FEW MEETINGS AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE CONSISTENT IN OUR APPROACH IN WHAT WE DO. AND SO IF I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY, THEN YOU WE LOOK AT THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, WHICH REALLY DOESN'T ADDRESS DEMOLITION. AND SO THEN OUR NEXT STEP IS TO LOOK AT DEMOLITION. IS THAT WOULD YOU SAY THAT WOULD BE THE THAT WOULD BE THE NEXT STEP AS FAR AS AND THE REASON I ASK THAT IS BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF I HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING THESE ORDINANCES. I HAVE A HARD I MEAN, I CAN LOOK, IT'LL TAKE ME HOURS AND THEN I BUT THERE IS I FOUND SOMETHING I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE I FOUND IT, BUT IT TALKS ABOUT IT, TALKS ABOUT DEMOLITION. IT TALKS ABOUT EARNING, YOU KNOW, REASONS FOR DEMOLITION, EARNING A REASONABLE RETURN IS A B. THE PROPERTY
[00:25:07]
CANNOT BE ADAPTED FOR ANY OTHER USE. WHETHER BY THE CURRENT OWNER OR BY A PURCHASER. SO, SO BUT THESE AND THERE'S A, B, C AND D. SO TWO SECTIONS THAT ARE PENDING. ONE IS HARDSHIP RIGHT.SO THAT'S UNDER HARDSHIP OKAY OKAY I BELIEVE WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT IS UNDER HARDSHIP. SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO APPLY FOR OKAY. SO WHAT ABOUT DEMOLITION DUE TO NEGLECT. WHERE IS THAT I MEAN THERE WAS ONE THAT TO ME WAS KIND OF QUESTIONABLE BECAUSE THEY SAID, WELL IT HASN'T BEEN THE SAME PERSON HAS OWNED IT FOR YEARS. IT HASN'T BEEN OCCUPIED. AND WHEN DO WE USE DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT? WHEN DOES THAT EVER. BECAUSE IN MY MIND I WAS THINKING, IF WE WERE EVER GOING TO USE ONE AT THAT POINT, THIS IS WHEN WE WOULD USE IT. AND IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WOULD COME TO US OR WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? SO DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT IS KIND OF COMPLETELY SEPARATE FROM THE DEMOLITION CODE, IS WHAT I CAN SAY IS MAYBE WE SHOULD DO A DIFFERENT A SEPARATE TRAINING, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO CONFUSE THE TWO. OKAY. IT'S IN A TOTALLY SEPARATE SECTION OF THE CODE AS WELL. OKAY. DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT IS USUALLY SPOTTED BY CODE SERVICES AND THEN BROUGHT FORWARD IN THAT DIRECTION, RATHER THAN THEM APPLYING FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. OKAY. SO I THINK AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT SECTION, WHAT IT DOES SAY IS THAT NEGLECT IS NOT A BASIS ON WHICH TO DETERMINE THAT YOU HAVE A HARDSHIP WHEN IT COMES TO DEMOLITION. IF I REMEMBER IT'S UNDER A DIFFERENT IT'S UNDER A DIFFERENT. YEAH, YEAH. COULD I COMMENT ABOUT THIS IN THE PAST WHEN I'VE SEEN THIS ENFORCED, IT WAS ENFORCED BY THE HOUSING STANDARDS DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY. AND I'VE SEEN THIS HAPPEN ON OCCASION WHEN WORTHWHILE HOUSES HAVE BEEN REMOVED BY THE OPINION OF EITHER THE HOUSING STANDARDS DEPARTMENT OR SOMEONE WITHIN THE STAFF. AND THE UNFORTUNATE FACT IS THAT SOMETIMES, OFTENTIMES, THIS OCCURS WITHOUT DUE CONSIDERATION FOR RESTORATION. I REMEMBER THE LAST MEETING I WAS ASKED WHAT MY OPINION WAS ABOUT THIS ASPECT OF THE WORK. I BRING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE HOUSE AT THE CORNER OF BENGE AND DAVIS, WHICH WAS ON THE TOUR OF HOMES LAST YEAR, WHICH WAS SCHEDULED FOR DEMOLITION UNDER THE HEADING OF DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT AT THE TIME. IT WAS THEN RESCUED BY A WILLING INVESTOR AND WAS BROUGHT UP TO THE STANDARDS WE SAW IN THE TOUR. THAT PERCEPTION AND THAT AWARENESS NEEDS TO BE IN OUR DECISION MAKING AND I THINK IN THAT PART OF THE STAFF TO RESCUE THESE HOUSES THAT CAN BE SAVED. I SAID BEFORE AND I'LL SAY AGAIN, WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE MATERIALS THAT ARE USED, WHICH ARE ALL USUALLY LONGLEAF PINE OF A CHARACTER AND KIND, WE CAN'T EVEN GET ANYMORE. AND THEY HAVE POTENTIAL THAT VERY FEW PEOPLE REALIZE. UNLESS YOU'RE ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN RESTORATION OR YOU'RE A STAFF MEMBER RECOGNIZING THAT FACT, YOU CAN GO SO FAR, WE KNOW, BUT THE PROMOTION OF AN AWARENESS OF THIS IN THE PUBLIC IS OUR GREAT DUTY. I THINK HAVING RESTORED THAT HOUSE AT DAVIS AND BENGE, I KNOW IT WAS RESCUED MOMENTS BEFORE THE WRECKING BALL CAME AND IT BECAME A BEAUTIFUL PROJECT FOR THE OWNER AND FOR THE COMMUNITY. IN FACT, BY VIRTUE OF HAVING RESCUED THAT PARTICULAR PROPERTY, AT LEAST FIVE OTHER HOUSES IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA WERE IMMEDIATELY RESTORED. SO THERE'S A CUMULATIVE EFFECT IN DOING PROPER RECOGNITION ON THIS SCOR. AND OFTENTIMES THERE'S A ZEALOUSNESS ON THE PART OF THE HOUSING STANDARDS DEPARTMENT TO SEE A HOUSE AND GET RID OF IT, BECAUSE IT'S A VERY ONE WAY VIEW OF IT. IT'S SEEN TO HAVE BEEN NEGLECTED AND ABANDONED, MORE OR LESS. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. SO MANY TIMES AN OPPORTUNITY IS OVERLOOKED. AND WE'VE SEEN THAT ON SOUTH CHURCH. MOST RECENTLY. SO I BRING THIS TO THE TO THE BOARD'S ATTENTION AS A PRACTITIONER. I SEE IT HAPPEN FREQUENTLY, AND I WOULD WISH THAT IT WOULD BE A THING OF CONSIDERATION WHEN WE MAKE THESE DECISIONS, THAT THESE PROPERTIES OFTEN CAN BE RESTORED. SO I'LL BRING ANOTHER POINT UP AND WHAT SAFEGUARDS OR PROACTIVE ACTIONS ARE IN PLACE TO PREVENT NEGLECT?
[00:30:01]
BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A PROPERTY AND YOUR INTENTION IS SOMEWHERE DOWN THE ROAD TO DEMOLISH THAT AND YOU JUST LET IT GO AND NOBODY'S MONITORING IT, THEN YOU CAN HENCEFORTH IN A FEW YEARS TIME SAY, WELL, IT CAN'T BE REHABILITATED. BUT THE FACT WAS WHEN YOU PURCHASED IT ORIGINALLY, IT WAS IN LIVABLE CONDITION. SO IN THE HISTORIC AREA, WHO IS POLICING THE HOMEOWNERS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY KEEP UP WITH THEIR PROPERTIES AND THEY DON'T GO TO NEGLECT, BECAUSE MY FEAR IS, IS THAT THAT'S A TACTIC TO JUST LET THE HOUSE GO. THEN YOU GET TO WHEN IN YOUR MIND MAYBE YOU'RE LIKE, OKAY, IN TEN YEARS I WANT TO DO THIS, THIS OR THIS WHERE I CAN MAKE MORE MONEY FROM IT. AND SO AT THAT POINT, OH, WE CAN'T, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GET SOMEONE TO COME IN AND SAY, WELL, IT'S GOT TO BE DEMOLISHED AND NOW CANNOT BE REHABILITATED. AND I THINK WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT. SO ARE THERE ARE THERE THINGS IN PLACE TO PREVENT OR TO BE MORE PROACTIVE SO THAT THESE HOMES DON'T GET TO THE POINT WHERE THEY CAN'T BE RENOVATED OR REHABILITATED, OR DO WE HAVE SOMETHING IN PLACE OR DO WE JUST WAIT TILL THEY BECOME SO BAD THAT WE JUST TEAR THEM DOWN? I THINK PROACTIVELY SO WE DO HAVE FINANCIAL INCENTIVES, RIGHT? LIKE THE HOPE IS TO HELP SOMEONE PUT EFFORT INTO THE PROPERTY. IF YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT THE CARROT AND THE STICK, THE STICK SIDE OF IT WOULD THEN BE CODE VIOLATIONS FOR THAT DETERIORATING STATUS, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE WE HAVE A LOT OF HOMES IN THE HISTORIC AREA THAT WERE ONCE BEAUTIFUL, HOUSES THAT HAVE GOTTEN TO SUCH A TERRIBLE STATE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT BEEN KEPT UP, WHETHER BECAUSE THE PERSON DIDN'T HAVE MONEY OR BECAUSE IT'S A CONSCIOUS EFFORT. AND THEN WE COME TO THE POINT WHERE, OH, IT'S GOT TO BE DEMOLISHED. AND I'VE HEARD THAT SINCE I'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD SEVERAL TIMES, AND MY THOUGHT IS ALWAYS, HOW DID IT GET TO THIS POINT? I DEFINITELY SEE YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM. I THINK THAT THERE'S PROBABLY A HESITATION ON THE CITY'S PART TO PLAY A ROLE OF WHAT WOULD TYPICALLY BE LIKE AN HOA, BECAUSE I KNOW WE SEE THAT ON THE EAST SIDE OF MCKINNEY, TOO. YOU KNOW, THAT NEGLECT TO FOR WHATEVER REASON.AND THEN, YOU KNOW, BUILDINGS OR HOUSES ARE TORN DOWN, NEW THINGS ARE PUT THERE, THAT KIND OF THING. BUT WE DON'T HAVE HOA'S AND THE CITY HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR WITH US, WITH OUR NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION THAT WE'VE STARTED, THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO PLAY THAT ROLE. BUT IF YOU HAVE A HISTORIC DISTRICT, SURE. AND THIS IS PART OF THE CHARM OF THE CITY, AND IT IS A BIG REASON WHY MANY PEOPLE MOVE HERE, I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BEHOOVE THE CITY TO SAY, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE SHOULD LOOK AT THAT AND MAKE SURE AND ENSURE THAT THESE PROPERTIES AREN'T BEING YOU KNOW, NEGLECTED FOR A SPECIFIC REASON. AND IF IT IS BECAUSE THEY JUST CAN'T AFFORD IT. LIKE, I GUESS YOU INDICATED THAT THERE ARE SOME HELP. THERE IS SOME HELP AVAILABLE. CASSIE. BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN IT GETS TO A CERTAIN POINT, THERE'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH MONEY TO, TO FLIP IT. AND WE HAD A HOUSE THAT WAS FOR SALE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND OUR OWN CARRIE KENNEDY OVER THERE FOUND BECAUSE SHE'S VERY DILIGENT ABOUT IT, FOUND A BUYER FOR IT. BUT I LOOKED AT THAT HOUSE AND I'M LIKE, THIS IS GOING TO COST AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY, AND SOMEBODY'S GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE VERY DEEP POCKETS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT NEEDS A LOT, A LOT OF WORK. AND SO DO WE HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE THAT CAN COME IN AND BUY THESE HOUSES, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY GET TO THAT STATE OR, OR ENLIVEN THEM OR ARE THEY JUST GOING TO EVENTUALLY WE'RE GOING TO LOSE HALF OF THE HOUSES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST SO FAR GONE. I JUST THINK THAT'S MORE OF A PROACTIVE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE KIND OF LOOKING AT THE TAIL END OF IT. LIKE, NOW WHAT DO WE DO NOW THAT WE'RE AT THIS POINT? YEAH. AND I THINK WHAT YOU KNOW, WHAT CASSIE SAID ABOUT THE TAX INCENTIVES AND THE CODE ENFORCEMENT AND THINGS LIKE THAT ARE ARE A GOOD START TO THAT. I THINK WHEN WE USE THE WORD POLICING, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BUCK UP AT THAT. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GOING TO BE PEOPLE. SURE. I'M JUST I'M TRYING TO I'M TRYING TO CRAFT A STATEMENT SO THAT YOU KNOW, I DO THINK THAT A LOT OF IT IS BECAUSE PEOPLE JUST DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO DO IT. BUT I THINK THERE ARE ALSO SOME FOLKS THAT HAVE PURCHASED THIS IN THE PAST WITH JUST THAT OBJECTIVE IS WE'RE GOING TO RENT IT OUT. WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING FOR THE FOLKS THAT ARE RENTING IT FROM US. WE'RE GOING TO LET THESE HOUSES GO DOWNHILL.
[00:35:02]
AND THEN WHEN WE'VE WORN OUT THIS HOUSE, WE'RE GOING TO TEAR IT DOWN AND WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SOME BIG MONEY FROM IT. AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT WE WANT FOR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. YEAH.AND THAT'S ALL I'M GOING TO SAY ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE I DO HAVE A QUESTION. WHEN I FIRST GOT ON THE BOARD, THE QUESTION FOR ME WAS, HOW DO WE MEASURE SUCCESS OR FAILURE ON THIS BOARD? AND I CAME ACROSS THE MISSION STATEMENT FOR THE BOARD IN BUSINESS, EVERYTHING WE DID, WE MEASURED AGAINST THE MISSION STATEMENT OF OUR COMPANY. AND I'M ASKING, IS IT THERE BECAUSE WE NEEDED A PLACEHOLDER, OR IS IT THERE BECAUSE WE SHOULD LIVE UP TO IT AND WORK TOWARDS IT EVERY DAY? THE MISSION STATEMENT FOR THE B&B. YES. YEAH. I MEAN, YOU SHOULD BE. THAT'S WHAT GUIDES THE B&B THAT SAYS MAINTAIN MCKINNEY'S ARCHITECTURAL LEGACY, ENRICHING THE CULTURAL IDENTITY OF THE COMMUNITY AND STRENGTHENING THE ECONOMIC VALUE THROUGH PRESERVATION AND EDUCATION. SO THAT DOESN'T ASK US TO TEAR IT DOWN. IF IT'S SMALL AND UGLY, IT DOES NOT. NO, I'M JUST SAYING I. WHEN WE GIVE VARIANCES ON THINGS, WHETHER IT BE THE SIDING OR THE WINDOWS OR ON LIKE THAT, ARE WE WHAT WHAT BASIS DO WE GIVE A VARIANCE? YOU MEAN LIKE APPROVING A COA? IS IT. YEAH. IS IT ECONOMIC? IF IT'S LIKE A PERSON SAYS I CAN'T AFFORD THAT, OR IS IT BECAUSE IT'S NO LONGER POSSIBLE OR SO WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT IT, IT'S KIND OF A THERE'S A SPECTRUM. SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, OH I CAN'T CLICK. SO SORRY. NOT GOING TO REMEMBER. SO WHAT JOHANNA POINTED OUT EARLIER WAS NUMBER SIX, THE DETERIORATED HISTORIC FEATURES WILL BE REPAIRED RATHER THAN REPLACED WHERE THE SEVERITY OF DETERIORATION REQUIRES REPLACEMENT. THEN YOU'RE MATCHING DESIGN COLOR, TEXTURE AND WHERE POSSIBLE, MATERIALS. IT'S ALL A SPECTRUM. SO IF SOMEONE WHAT WOULD PREVENT SOMEONE FROM DOING THAT? IT DEPENDS ON THE PROPERTY. I. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT PRESERVATION IS THAT IT'S ALL VERY PLACE BASED, AND IT'S ALL VERY UNIQUE TO EACH PROPERTY. IF IT'S A NONCONTRIBUTING PROPERTY, THEN I MAY LET THEM, YOU KNOW, I WOULD APPROVE SOMETHING THAT I WOULDN'T APPROVE ON A HIGH PRIORITY PROPERTY. SO YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT ALL OF THOSE THINGS IN CONJUNCTION. YOU CAN'T JUST ISOLATE. I DISAPPROVE EVERY WINDOW BECAUSE IT'S A WINDOW BECAUSE YOU REVIEW IT ALL TOGETHER AS A PACKAGE. I THINK IF I CHARACTERIZE JIMMY JOHN, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME FRUSTRATION WITH THE FACT THAT WE HAVE OUR GUIDELINES AND IT'S GRAY AREA AND IT REQUIRES DELIBERATION AND DECISIONS BASED ON MAYBE HOW WE FEEL OR, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S IN OUR HEART. AND SO THAT DOES MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT. AND UNTIL WE HAVE A SPECIFIC ORDINANCE TO SAY YES OR NO, YOU CAN DO THIS, YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
WE'RE GOING TO BE STUCK IN THE SAME PLACE AND I DON'T KNOW, JENNIFER, YOU MAY BE ABLE TO SPEAK TO WHERE WE ARE AT BECOMING A CLG, WHICH MIGHT ENABLE US TO THEN HAVE SPECIFIC ORDINANCE THAT WOULD GUIDE THOSE THINGS. BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THAT'S GOING TO IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE A FRUSTRATION THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A GENERALIZED MISSION STATEMENT, AND IT SOUNDS REALLY GOOD FOR THE MOST PART, BUT IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU ANY SPECIFIC ACTIONS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE. THEY DID FORM A COMMITTEE OR A BOARD, WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE, AND WE'RE A VOLUNTEER BOARD, AND NOT EVERYTHING COMES BEFORE US. NOW, DEMOLITIONS DO BECAUSE I THINK WE MIGHT HAVE MADE IT A LITTLE BIT ENOUGH NOISE TO ENABLE THAT TO HAPPEN. I THINK THAT'S A GREAT THING. AND, YOU KNOW, GOING FORWARD, WE'RE ALWAYS GOING TO RUN INTO THE SAME PROBLEM. HOW HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT CEOS BEING INCLUDED IN OUR PACKET. SO IT COULD BE READ INTO THE MINUTES EACH MONTH. NOT NOT THAT WE NEED TO APPROVE THEM. APPROVAL PROCESS. DOES IT CHANGE
[00:40:01]
JUST OUR KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT'S GOING ON. ARE YOU REFERRING ONLY TO THE COMMERCIAL ONES? NO, BECAUSE WE GET THE RESIDENTIAL CODE. THEY COME TO US. I'VE NEVER RECEIVED THEM. JUST DEMOLITION. DEMOLITION IS WHAT COMES BEFORE THE BOARD CERTIFICATES, OTHER CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS. SO AN ADDITION WOULD START WITH STAFF. YEAH. RIGHT. RIGHT, RIGHT. YEAH.I WAS REFERRING TO DEMOLITION. SO YOU'RE ASKING FOR ALL OF THEM. YES. YEAH. HOW MANY ASKING FOR THAT. SO YOU CAN YOU CAN START FORMING KIND OF MORE CONSISTENCY BECAUSE IF WE ONLY SEE THE ONES THAT ARE FOR DEMOLITION NOW WE SEE THE OTHER ONES AS WELL. SO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? WELL, THERE'S A PARTICULAR HOUSE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD THAT I SEEM TO BE BECOMING ACCOUNTABLE FOR. EVERY NAIL THAT GOES IN IT, EVEN THOUGH I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT FROM NEIGHBORS AND WHATNOT. AND I'M I CAN LOOK INTO SOMETHING TO HELP FACILITATE A LINE OF COMMUNICATION. I'M NOT SURE THAT IT WOULD BE COMING BEFORE THE BOARD WITH A LIST OF CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS, OR JUST MAKING SURE THE MAP IS UP TO DATE. I CAN DEFINITELY LOOK INTO THOSE THINGS THOUGH, BUT THE AS IS RIGHT NOW, TODAY IT'S TO MY KNOWLEDGE WE HAVE NO ABILITY AS BOARD MEMBERS TO GO TO A SITE AND PULL UP A GIVEN ADDRESS AND LOOK AT IT AND SEE IF THERE ARE ANY THERE, ONLY THE SITE THAT YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THAT YOU'VE PULLED WHERE IT HAD THE OLD CODE AS WELL, BUT I DIDN'T FIND ANY, SO IT STILL GAVE YOU THE NUMBER AND THEN IF YOU CONTACTED ME, I COULD SHOW YOU. SO I JUST NEED TO CALL YOU FOR ALL OF THEM. IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT EVERY CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THEN I THINK THAT WOULD CURRENTLY, YES, YOU WOULD HAVE TO. LIKE I SAID, I'M WILLING TO LOOK INTO ALTERNATIVES. WE'VE EXPLORED THIS. I THINK IT WAS LAST YEAR OR THE YEAR BEFORE, AT LEAST SINCE I'VE BEEN EMPLOYED HERE.
WE HAVE EXPLORED IT ONCE BEFORE, AND THAT'S WHEN WE STARTED DOING THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS MAP, WHICH SHOWS ALL THE SUBMITTALS AND THE APPROVALS AND WHATNOT. BUT WE CAN LOOK INTO ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME MAP THAT WAS IN THE RESOURCE SURVEY THAT WE DID? THERE'S TWO SEPARATE MAPS. THE GREEN MAP WITH THE RED DIAMONDS. YES. I FIND NONE. JUST THE DATES AND THE NUMBERS. THEN I WILL LOOK INTO IT AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE GIS MAP. JUST I THINK THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO COME BACK WITH A TRAINING. PERHAPS, ON THE FUNCTIONALITY OF THAT MAP, BECAUSE THE CREATION OF THAT ONLINE MAP WAS TO HELP ADDRESS YOUR EXACT QUESTION, COMMENT AND CONCERN SO THAT THOSE CODES WERE AT YOUR FINGERTIPS IN AN INTERACTIVE FORMAT. NOW, WE DO HAVE SOME LIMITATIONS FOR WHAT ALL CAN BE SHOWN ON THERE, BUT LET US LOOK INTO IT AND MAKE SURE IT'S FUNCTIONING. THE WAY THAT YOU ALL INTENDED IT. AND WE DID. AND THEN WE CAN DEFINITELY BRING IT BACK AND DO KIND OF ANOTHER DEMO OF HOW IT WORKS, MAKING SURE THAT IF THERE'S SOMETHING WE'VE MISSED OR WE NEED TO IMPROVE UPON, WE CAN TAKE THAT BACK. BUT TRUTHFULLY, I THINK THAT MAY BE A BETTER FORMAT THAN A MONTHLY LIST BECAUSE IT IS INTENDED TO BE INTERACTIVE AND CURRENT. AND SO IF IT'S NOT FUNCTIONING THAT WAY, WE NEED TO LOOK INTO IT. SO TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GETTING YOU WHAT YOU NEED. ALSO, WE HAD TALKED ABOUT RECEIVING ALL THE PRIORITIES, THE FOR INSTANCE, THE HOUSE THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT APPLIED FOR DEMOLITION. IF WE HAD A PLACE THAT WE COULD PULL UP THE PRIORITY RATINGS OF THE HOUSES AROUND IT, I THINK THAT WOULD HELP US TO COME TO A DECISION OR AT LEAST DEFEND A DECISION. ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. I THINK YOU GUYS ARE WORKING ON THAT. RIGHT.
BECAUSE THE HISTORIC RESOURCES SURVEY CAME OUT AND THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE A MAP COMING RIGHT? THEY SAID THEY WOULD. WE WOULD HAVE, YEAH, WE'RE UPDATING THE MAP SO THAT IT SHOWS THE NEW PRESERVATION PRIORITY. CURRENTLY, THE MAP SHOWS THE 2015 PRIORITY RIGHT. I HAD A QUESTION JUST ABOUT THE IF WE COULD GO BACK TO THE SLIDE ABOUT WHAT TO CONSIDER WHEN A COA IS PRESENTED OR FORWARD. I'M NOT SURE. OKAY. SO WHEN AND THIS IS FOR WHEN A COA IS PRESENTED OR BROUGHT TO CITY STAFF, RIGHT. YOU CONSIDER ALL OF THESE THINGS. THESE THREE THINGS HERE.
SO I KNOW THIS WAS A QUESTION THAT WE HAD WITH THE PREVIOUS COA FOR DEMOLITION THAT WE GOT.
[00:45:03]
WHAT WAS THE ESTIMATED REHAB COST? AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE ONE. AND SO I JUST WONDER IF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE ADDED TO, TO BE CONSIDERED WHEN THE REVIEW IS DONE, BECAUSE THEN IT KIND OF SHOWS WHAT'S THE WORD, DUE DILIGENCE. DUE DILIGENCE. YES. THANK YOU. YOU KNOW, AND WE'RE ABLE TO LOOK AT THE WHOLE PICTURE AND DETERMINE, YOU KNOW, WILL THEY DID THEIR DUE DILIGENCE. THEY FIGURED OUT, YOU KNOW, THE COST OF A DEMO. THEY FIGURED OUT THE COST OF A REHAB.AND THIS IS JUST REALLY UNATTAINABLE. AND THIS MAY BE THE BEST ROUTE. THAT IS A REQUIREMENT. IT'S A HARDSHIP OKAY. CORRECT. YEAH. SO THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE HARDSHIP REQUIREMENTS. SO A REQUIREMENT FOR JUST A STRAIGHT UP NO CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS I WOULDN'T BE LOOKING AT ESTIMATED COST. THAT'S A FAIR AMOUNT OF WORK TOO. YEAH. YEAH SURE. GET AN INDEPENDENT ESTIMATE THAT IS THEN HAS TO BE CHECKED BY SURE. CITY STAFF. AND MAYBE THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES TO BE ABLE TO QUANTIFY WHAT THAT MIGHT BE OR BUT I DON'T THAT WOULD BE A BIT OF A BURDEN. YOU COULD YOU COULD ASK CASSIE, WHAT DO YOU THINK? DO YOU THINK IT'S $150,000? AND SHE WOULD. SO I DON'T KNOW, PICK A NUMBER OR ANY NUMBER. I DON'T KNOW WHAT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TOOLS ARE AVAILABLE. YEAH. TO MAKE THAT ASSESSMENT. I KNOW THAT TALKING ABOUT THE HOUSE THAT KERRY JUST SOLD ON HUNT STREET, IS THAT ON HUNT OR COLLEGE? IT'S ON HUNT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE SOLD IT FOR, BUT I SUSPECT THE REHAB ON THAT HOUSE IS GOING TO BE TWICE WHAT THEY PAID FOR IT. YEAH. IT WAS. YEAH. SO IN A CONDITION. YEAH. AND PRICES JUST KEEP GOING UP ALL THE TIME. YEAH. SURE. YEAH. THAT'S TRUE. YEAH. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. AND I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THAT. IT'D BE NICE. RIGHT. BUT WE WOULDN'T HAVE ANY WAY OF DETERMINING WHETHER IT WAS A VALID OR INVALID SURE ASSESSMENT. YEAH. THAT'S WE COULD USE JAMES. YEAH. JAMES COULD JUST TAKE ON THAT. HE'S GOT THE TIME. I'M SURE HE COULD DO IT. I'M SURE. PICK A NUMBER.
OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR CASSIE? I'VE GOT ONE. OKAY. SO FOR THE OVERALL PROCESS OF THE CCA, ARE THERE TIME LIMITS LIKE IS THERE A TIME LIMIT FOR REVIEWING A TIME LIMIT FOR.
COULD YOU. SO IN THE COMMERCIAL AREA THAT'S TEN DAYS. AND IN THE RESIDENTIAL AREA THAT'S 30. OKA.
HOW CAN WE GET SHORT CHANGED? ONE ONE HOUR IS OUR TIMELINE OKAY. HOW DO WE YOU GET A WEEKEND BEFORE ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR CASSIE. GOOD. CASSIE, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
THANKS, CASSIE. THANK YOU. KATH. ALL RIGHT, NEXT ITEM. DO WE HAVE ANY GENERAL CITIZEN COMMENTS REGARDING ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA? SEEING NONE, DO ANY OF THE BOARD MEMBERS OR STAFF ANY
[BOARD AND STAFF COMMENTS]
FURTHER BUSINESS TO DISCUSS? STAFF? DOES. OH GOODNESS GRACIOUS. BUT LET JAMES GO FIRST. SORRY. I'LL WAIT TILL CASSIE'S OKAY. OKAY. CASSIE HAS THE FINAL SAY, BUT. OKAY, SO I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF THINGS TO GO OVER. FIRST OFF, THERE WAS AN ITEM THAT YOU ALL REVIEWED, 311 SOUTH KENTUCKY, THAT IS BEING APPEALED TO CITY COUNCIL, AND IT'S GOING TO BE ON THE AGENDA NOVEMBER 19TH. SECOND THING I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT CALENDARS. I THINK YOU ALL RECEIVED THEM.YES. THANK YOU. YEAH. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR WORK ON THE CALENDAR IN DECEMBER. WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS DO A QUICK INFORMATIONAL PRESENTATION ABOUT THE SCHEDULE FOR THE NEXT CALENDAR AND KIND OF WHAT TO EXPECT, WHAT MONTHS, WHEN, BUT TENTATIVELY, I WOULD SAY START THINKING ABOUT HOMES THAT YOU WANT TO NOMINATE. RIGHT NOW I'M PROJECTING THAT IN FEBRUARY WE'LL PROBABLY BE VOTING ON THE NOMINATED HOUSES. SO IF YOU HAVE ANY IN MIND, PLEASE SUBMIT THEM.
AND THEN MY FINAL BIT WAS A COUPLE OF Y'ALL HAD ASKED ME TO TALK ABOUT OUR NEIGHBORHOOD PLANNER, WHO IS TORI BROWN, AND SHE IS HERE TODAY. TORI IS KIND OF A SPECIALIZED NEIGHBORHOOD PLANNER FOR OUR DEPARTMENT, AS WELL AS DEV SERVICES, AND SHE'S HELPING CITIZENS INTERACT WITH OUR PROCESSES. YOU'LL SEE HER AT A LOT OF EVENTS. HER FACE IS OUT THERE, A LOT CURRENTLY. RIGHT NOW SHE'S FOCUSED ON THE EAST SIDE OF MCKINNEY, BUT WORKS EVERYWHERE. MEGAN, HAVE YOU ALL HAD HER AT YOUR. YEAH, TORI'S. TORI'S BEEN AROUND AT A LOT OF OUR EAST MCKINNEY EVENTS. I THINK YOU'RE ACTUALLY COMING TO OUR NEXT MEETING, OUR NEXT NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION
[00:50:01]
MEETING. AND SO WE'VE BEEN, YOU KNOW, REALLY LOVING HAVING TORI AROUND. AND I KNOW MY MOM AND I ARE SUPPOSED TO BE MEETING WITH HER ABOUT TWO MONTHS AGO TO GET SOME GUIDANCE ON JUST SOME THINGS. YEAH. IT'S YEAH IT'S FINE JUST TO GET SOME GUIDANCE ON SOME THINGS FOR OUR HOME THAT JUST THIS YEAR IS 70, NO, 40, 50 MATH, 74 IS 70 YEARS OLD. OKAY. 50 YEARS. YEAH. SO WE'RE WE'RE GOING TO MEET WITH HER AND, YOU KNOW, GET SOME GUIDANCE ON ALL OF THAT. AND WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT IT. COOL. THAT'S GREAT. ALL RIGHT. THAT ALL THAT WAS ALL FROM STAFF OKAY JAMES I'M SURE I SPEAK FOR TOM AND THE REST OF THE BOARD TO THANK BETTY FOR HER YEARS OF SERVICE AND HER WONDERFUL APPROACH TO HOW WE DO OUR BUSINESS AND WE WANT TO THANK YOU PERSONALLY. THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR EFFORTS IN OUR BEHALF AND FOR THE EFFORTS OF THE CITY AND MAKING PROGRESS ON HISTORIC PRESERVATION. THANK YOU. BETTY. THANKS, BETTY. THANKS, BETTY. THAT. ALL RIGHT.WELL, I THINK THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT PEOPLE WANT TO DISCUSS. WE CAN GO AHEAD AND I'LL ASK FOR A MOTION TO ADJOURN THE MEETING. SO MOVED. WE'LL HAVE A SECOND. I'LL SECOND. ALL RIGHT. WE'VE GOT BETTY MAKING THE MOTION. MEGAN ESCAMILLA MAKING THE SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? GOOD. EVERYBODY VOTE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION. RAISE YOUR HANDS. THE MOTION CARRIES.
ALL RIGHT. I THINK THAT'S ALL THERE IS. GOOD JOB. DO I GET TO DO THIS NOW? YOU'VE DONE IT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. OUR NEXT MEETING IS THE FIRST WEEK OF DECEMBER. CASSIE, WILL WE HAVE STUFF TO LOOK AT? YES, WE HAVE STUFF. ALL R
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.