Oct 03, 2024 Historic Preservation Advisory Board

[CALL TO ORDER]

[00:00:08]

EVENING. IT IS 5:31 P.M. WELCOME TO THE CITY OF MCKINNEY'S HISTORIC PRESERVATION ADVISORY BOARD MEETING OF OCTOBER THE 3RD, 2020. FOR THE BOARD MEMBERS THAT YOU SEE SEATED BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING HAVE BEEN APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL, AND WE SERVE AT THE PLEASURE OF THE CITY COUNCIL. IF YOU ARE HERE THIS EVENING AND WISH TO SPEAK DURING A PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION, PLEASE COMPLETE A SPEAKER'S CARD. STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD AND LIMIT YOUR REMARKS TO THREE MINUTES. WE ASK THAT YOU BE CONCISE IN YOUR COMMENTS AND SPEAK ONLY ONCE, IF NECESSARY, TO CLARIFY OR TO ANSWER QUESTIONS POSED BY THE AUDIENCE. CITY STAFF WILL BE CALLED TO RESPOND QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED BY THOSE IN THE AUDIENCE. THE BOARD REQUESTS THAT WE ALL TREAT EACH OTHER WITH RESPECT. FOCUS ON THE ISSUES. BE CONCISE IN YOUR COMMENTS. WE ALL WANT TO ACT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF ALL THE CITIZENS OF MCKINNEY, WHILE MAINTAINING THE HERITAGE AND HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. OKAY, SO OUR

[Election of the Chair and Vice-Chair]

[CONSENT ITEMS]

[PUBLIC COMMENTS ON AGENDA ITEMS (For Non-Public Hearing Items)]

[Consider/Discuss/Act on the Request by David Kelly for Approval of a Historic Marker for the Property Located at 801 N Church Street]

SO THIS HOME WAS CONSTRUCTED IN 1917 AS A TWO STORY, EIGHT ROOM. IT WAS CONSTRUCTED IN THE AMERICAN FOURSQUARE STYLE, WHICH WAS WIDELY POPULAR FROM THE 1890S THROUGH THE 1930S. THAT STYLE IS RELATED BOTH TO THE PRAIRIE STYLE IS WHERE AS WELL AS THE CRAFTSMAN STYLE, BUT IT'S UNIQUELY KNOWN FOR ITS BOXY DESIGN. THE LARGE FRONT PORCHES AND THE WIDE STAIRS. THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW ALTERATIONS THROUGHOUT THE YEARS, WHICH HAVE INCLUDED THAT REAR PORCH ADDITION, A SLEEPING PORCH WHICH WAS ENCLOSED, AND THE ADDITION AND LATER REMOVAL OF METAL SIDING. THE CURRENT OWNERS HAVE REHABILITATED THE INTERIOR AND THE EXTERIOR OF THE HOME. THE HOME IS LISTED AS A MEDIUM PRIORITY IN THE 2023 HISTORIC RESOURCES SURVEY. AND THEN, JUST

[00:05:09]

OTHER NOTABLE FEATURES OF THE STYLE ARE THE BOXY SHAPE, THE HIPPED ROOF, AND THE MORE SIMPLIFIED ORNAMENTATION. AMERICAN FOURSQUARE FOURSQUARE STYLE WAS ACTUALLY A REACTION TO THE VICTORIAN PERIOD, WHICH IS KNOWN FOR THOSE QUEEN ANNES WITH ALL THE DETAILS, SO THIS IS MUCH MORE SIMPLIFIED. THE HISTORIC MARKER APPLICATION GOES INTO A LOT OF DETAIL ABOUT THE HISTORY, BUT I JUST WANT TO KIND OF SUMMARIZE SOME OF THAT FOR YOU. SO REVEREND CHARLES WHITFIELD, DENNIS WAS THE PRESIDING ELDER OF THE METHODIST EPISCOPAL CHURCH FROM 1914 TO 1918, AND THAT IS DURING THAT TIME IS WHEN HE HAD THE PARSONAGE BUILT. HE LED A CAMPAIGN TO RAISE FUNDS FOR IT AND HIRED WILLIAM J. HIGGINS TO CONSTRUCT IT. HE ONLY LIVED THERE ACTUALLY A SHORT TIME BEFORE HIS TERM AS THE PRESIDING ELDER CAME TO AN END. HOWEVER, THE ELDERS CONTINUED LIVING IN THERE UNTIL 1948, WHEN THE CHURCH BEGAN RENTING OUT THE HOME SO THEY CONTINUED HOMEOWNER OR OWNERSHIP OF THE HOME UNTIL 1953. THEN THEY SOLD THAT HOME TO AN AUTO SALESMAN NAMED THOMAS L HAYES, WHO CONTINUED RENTING OUT THE HOUSE IN THE FOLLOWING YEARS. THE HOME EXCHANGED HANDS NUMEROUS TIMES UNTIL 1975, WHEN GEORGE AND ELSIE KODERA PURCHASED THE HOME. THEY WERE THE HOME'S LONGEST CONTINUAL RESIDENTS, OWNING THE HOME FROM 1975 UNTIL 2008 OR 2017. AND THEN I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THIS IS A SANBORN OF THE HOUSE. THE ADDRESS HAS CHANGED ON NORTH CHURCH STREET. QUITE A FEW TIMES, BUT IT'S THE ONE THAT SAYS 615. AND THEN HERE ARE JUST TWO PHOTOS OF THE HOME FROM THE NOT SO DISTANT PAST. ON THE LEFT YOU'LL SEE 2005, AND THE RIGHT IS 2015. AND THEN THESE ARE SOME CURRENT ELEVATIONS. STAFF HAS REVIEWED THE REQUEST BY THE HOMEOWNERS AND FOUND THAT IT MEETS THE MINIMUM ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS OF THE PROGRAM FOR A HISTORIC MARKER. AND THAT CONCLUDES THE STAFF PRESENTATION FOR THE MARKER APPLICATION OF 801 NORTH CHURCH. THANK YOU. NANCY. DO DO YOU ALL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR CASSIE? I HAVE A QUESTION. HAS THE PRIORITY PRESERVATION PRIORITY CHANGED AT ALL ON THE HOUSE? IT HAS NOT.

IT'S STILL ME. SO IT'S ALWAYS BEEN MEDIUM. I WAS SURPRISED BY THAT. ALSO THAT IT WAS MEDIUM.

DO YOU KNOW? IS IT WHAT IS IT THAT KEPT THAT FROM BEING A HIGH? YOU. YEAH. JUST FROM LOOKING AT IT, MY GUESS WOULD BE THAT IT'S A MEDIUM PRIORITY BECAUSE IT IS IT'S INDICATIVE OF THE STYLE. BUT THIS ISN'T A SUPER RARE STYLE TO HAVE. OKAY. IT'S A BEAUTIFUL HOUSE. ANYBODY ELSE GOT ANY QUESTIONS FOR CASSIE? OKAY, I KNOW, I SEE THAT ONE OF THAT BARBARA IS HERE.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME UP AND PRESENT TO US AND JUST. WE'D LOVE TO HAVE YOU JUST JUST TALK, OKAY? YEAH. I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING PREPARED, BUT I WOULD JUST SAY THAT WE LOVE, LOVE THIS HOUSE. WE PREVIOUSLY OWNED 201 NORTH WADDELL, WHICH IS THE CORNER OF WADDELL AND VIRGINIA.

AND WE FIXED THAT ONE UP A LITTLE BIT, BUT IT DIDN'T NEED A LOT OF WORK. THIS HOUSE NEEDED A LOT OF WORK. AND SO WE WERE REALLY EXCITED WHEN IT WAS ON THE MARKET TO FIND THAT THE ORIGINAL FLOORS WERE UNDER THE WALL TO WALL CARPETING AND ALL OF THAT WOOD SIDING THAT YOU SEE THERE HAD BEEN COVERED WITH METAL SIDING. AND SO WE WERE AGAIN, VERY HAPPY TO KNOW THAT WHEN WE TOOK DOWN THE METAL, THE WOOD WAS ACTUALLY IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE. THERE HAD BEEN A FIRE IN THE HOUSE. WE LEARNED IN LIKE 1986. SO THE BACK SIDE OF THE HOUSE THAT YOU CAN'T SEE THERE, THERE WAS ACTUALLY INSULATION BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, THE, THE FOUR BY FOURS AND THE METAL SIDING.

SO WE DID ADD MATCHING WOOD ON THE BACK SO THAT IT WAS RETURNED TO WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. SO YEAH, IT'S BEEN IT'S BEEN A REALLY FUN PROJECT. THE CHIMNEY WAS ALSO REALLY INTERESTING. SO THE, THE FIREPLACE IS EXACTLY WHERE IT WAS, BUT IT HAD SUNKEN AND WE HAD MCKINNEY CHIMNEY COMPANY OR WHOEVER THEY WERE CAME OUT AND THEY HAD TO REBUILD THE ENTIRE THING. SO WE LEFT IT THERE AND JUST PUT IN THE STEEL LINER, ADDED BRICK THAT WE SALVAGED FROM FROM DALLAS. AND SO WE WERE IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT TO US TO JUST RETURN IT TO WHAT IT HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY. AND THANKFULLY, THE CADERAS KEPT REALLY GOOD AND TOOK REALLY GOOD CARE OF IT.

THEY PRESERVED IT IN A LOT OF WAYS BY KIND OF COVERING IT ALL UP INSIDE AND OUT. BUT YEAH, NO,

[00:10:03]

BUT THAT'S PART OF THE FUN OF LIVING THERE. BUT BUT YEAH, IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME, HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM. CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT LEGACY PECAN TREE THERE IN THE BACKYARD. WE CAN SEE ON THAT LEFT I CAN OF IT ACTUALLY. SO WE HAD AN ARBORIST COME OUT AND HE ESTIMATED IT AT 100 OR 110 YEARS OLD. IT IS IT IS MASSIVE AND IT GOES COMPLETELY ACROSS THE ALLEY AND HALFWAY, ALMOST TOUCHING OUR NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE. SO WE ARE THANKFULLY, WE GET ALONG WELL WITH OUR NEIGHBORS. SO WE'RE KEEPING KEEP IN CONTROL OF THAT TREE. BUT IT IS MASSIVE. AND THE PECANS, JUST LIKE PELT EVERYTHING DOWN BELOW. EVEN THE DOG EATS THE PECANS ACTUALLY.

BUT YEAH, THAT'S A REALLY SPECIAL TREE IS WHAT WE WERE TOLD THAT IT'S A VERY HEALTHY ACTUALLY. THERE IS WE'VE DISCOVERED A WELL AT THE BASE OF THE TREE, WHICH WAS REALLY INTERESTING. SO WE JUST FILLED THAT IN NOT TOO LONG AGO. THAT WAS DISCOVERED. WE WERE TRYING TO DO SOME LANDSCAPING, BUT YEAH, IT'S A IT'S A REALLY NEAT OLD HOUSE. THERE'S SOME GHOST STORIES. I THINK THEY'RE DOCUMENTED IN YOUR, IN YOUR PACKET. SO IF YOU NEED A LITTLE LIGHT READING THERE'S SOME REALLY INTERESTING STUFF IN THERE. BUT THE NEIGHBOR TOLD US WE HAD GHOSTS WITH TOP HATS. SO THAT'S I'LL TAKE A DAPPER GHOST ANY DAY. SO YEAH, BUT NO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR CONSIDERING OUR APPLICATION. WE APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? WELL, I DON'T HAVE A QUESTION, BUT I'D LIKE TO COMMEND THE AUTHORS OF THE HISTORIC CONTEXT. A LOT OF RESEARCH WENT INTO THAT AND IT WAS VERY INTERESTING.

YEAH. WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW TOM MCKERROW IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. HE HAS DONE THIS FOR A LOT OF HOMEOWNERS AND HE IS SO THOROUGH. AND YEAH, IT'S A REAL TREASURE TO KNOW THE HISTORY OF WHERE YOU LIVE. YEAH, VERY GOOD. OKAY. IF THERE'S NO FURTHER DISCUSSION, DO WE HAVE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL OR. SO MOVED. MOVED BY MR. MCWILLIAMS, DO I HAVE A SECOND? I SECOND.

SECOND BY MISS BRIER. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR, RAISE YOUR HAND. OPPOSED?

[Consider/Discuss/Act on a Request by David Kelly for Approval of a Historic Marker Level Historic Neighborhood Improvement Zone Program Tax Exemption (Level I) for the Property Located at 801 N Church Street]

AND THAT CONCLUDES THE PRESENTATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. CASSIE. ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? CASSIE. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. DO YOU WANT BARBARA? DO YOU WANT TO COME UP AND SAY SOMETHING ELSE ABOUT. I DON'T HAVE TOO MUCH MORE TO SAY, BUT I WOULD SAY, OBVIOUSLY, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, THERE'S STILL SOME WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. SO OBVIOUSLY THE TAX PROGRAM IS A GREAT BENEFIT. WE GOT IT ON THEIR LAST HOUSE AND IT OBVIOUSLY ALLOWED US TO DO A LOT OF WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. THE FOUNDATION DEFINITELY NEEDS SOME WORK AND A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT WE HAVE JUST KIND OF PHASE. SO WE WILL CONTINUE TO DO OUR VERY BEST TO RESTORE AND MAINTAIN THE PROPERTY AS IT SHOULD BE. SO THIS WOULD BE A HUGE I KNOW WHEN Y'ALL BOUGHT THIS HOUSE, THAT IT. HOW LONG BEFORE YOU MOVED INTO THE HOUSE BECAUSE YOU DID A LOT OF WORK, RIGHT? WE DID. YEAH. SO IT ACTUALLY WENT PRETTY QUICKLY BECAUSE WE DIDN'T REALLY MOVE ANY WALLS. WE DID. IT WAS MOSTLY COSMETIC UPDATES. WE DID ADD A BATHROOM, BUT IT WAS ABOUT THREE AND A HALF MONTHS FROM THE TIME THAT WE PURCHASED THE HOUSE. SO WE MOVED IN. IT HELPED THAT WE

[00:15:04]

Y'ALL HAVE DONE A YOU'VE DONE A BEAUTIFUL JOB. THANK YOU. WE FINALLY IT'S REALLY THIS IS FUN.

I HAVEN'T ACTUALLY SEEN THAT 2005 PICTURE BEFORE. SO IT'S FUN TO SEE SOME ADDITIONAL. AND WE YOU KNOW THE GARAGE IS STILL BACK THERE AS WELL. WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT WAS PUT IN EXACTLY. BUT WE KEPT THAT JUST WHERE IT IS AS WELL. SO YEAH. ALL RIGHT. ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU BARBARA. THANK YOU MA'AM OKAY. ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTION. DOES ANYBODY WANT TO MAKE A MOTION MOVE TO APPROVE OKAY. BY MR. MCWILLIAMS. DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND BY MISS PRIOR ROBERTSON? PRIOR. OKAY. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? RAISE YOUR HAND. OPPOSED? OKAY. MOTION PASSES.

[Consider/Discuss/Act on a Request by Barratt Properties, LLC for a Certificate of Appropriateness for Demolition of a Building Located at 311 S Kentucky Street]

AND THEN THE NEXT COUPLE OF SLIDES ARE GOING TO HAVE EXTERIOR PHOTOS OF THE HOME, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR THE DEMOLITION OF THE BUILDING WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED BY STAFF IN AUGUST 2022. HOWEVER, THAT APPROVAL EXPIRED. THEN, IN MAY OF 2024, THE APPLICATION OR THE APPLICANT SUBMITTED A NEW COA FOR DEMOLITION OF THE BUILDING, WHICH WAS FORWARDED TO THE BOARD FOR CONSIDERATION. THE BOARD DENIED THE REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION 7 TO 0 ZERO. THE APPLICANT THEN APPEALED THAT DECISION TO CITY COUNCIL, WHICH WAS HEARD ON JUNE 18TH, 2024. AT THAT TIME, CITY COUNCIL DECIDED OR DETERMINED THAT THE DECISION OF THE HP-IB SHOULD BE AFFIRMED AND DENIED. THE APPEAL. SO THE BOARD HAS FOUR OPTIONS FOR THIS APPLICATION. APPROVE. APPROVE WITH CONDITIONS, DENIAL OR ISSUE A 90 DAY DELAY AT THE END OF THE 90 DAY DELAY, A COA FOR DEMOLITION WOULD BE ISSUED. A MOTION TO APPROVE THE ITEM APPROVES THE REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION, AND THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. OKAY, OKAY.

THANK YOU. CASSIE, DOES ANYBODY HAVE QUESTIONS FOR CASSIE AT THIS POINT? YEAH. CASSIE, HAS THIS PROPERTY HAD ANY CHANGE IN PRIORITY? JUST THE SAME QUESTION. THIS PROPERTY HAS NOT HAD ANY CHANGE IN PRIORITY. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO WHEN WE DID THE SURVEY BACK IN BEFORE THIS LAST ONE, IT WAS STILL A MEDIUM. IT WAS LISTED AS A MEDIUM. THE 2015. YES. OKAY. OKAY. WAS WAS THE HOUSE OCCUPIED IN 2015. THE PHOTO THAT SHOWS 2015. WAS IT OCCUPIED THAT? I BELIEVE IT WAS STILL BEING USED AS STORAGE. ACCORDING TO THE LETTER OF INTENT, THE APPLICANT'S LETTER OF INTENT HAS THAT IT WAS USED AS STORAGE FOR THE SURREY HOUSE FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS. AND ALSO I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION ON THE. I THINK IT'S THE NORTHEAST FACADE. THERE'S SOME TRIM AROUND

[00:20:07]

CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND THE. IF WE DENIED AGAIN TONIGHT, THE 90 DAYS? AND THEN CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND THAT? SO THOSE ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS THAT YOU COULD DO. YOU COULD EITHER JUST DENY THE APPLICATION, WHICH IS WHAT WAS DONE PREVIOUSLY A 90 DAY DEMOLITION DELAY. JUST MEANS THAT THERE WOULD BE A 90 DAY PAUSE BEFORE THEY COULD DEMOLISH THE PROPERTY. COULD YOU TELL ME THE ADVANTAGE TO THAT? YEAH. SO USUALLY WITHIN THE 90 DAYS, WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IS EITHER ANOTHER INTERESTED BUYER, SEE IF THEY CAN FIND A WAY TO MOVE IT, THAT SORT OF THING. IS IT FAIR TO ASK WHAT WILL BE DONE WITH THAT PROPERTY OR. I MEAN, IS SOMETHING GOING TO REPLACE THE STRUCTURE? SO THE APPLICATION IS JUST FOR THE DEMOLITION OF THE PROPERTY. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. DON'T GO FAR CASSIE, BECAUSE I'M SURE WE'LL HAVE MOR. BUT WE DO HAVE THE APPLICANT IS PRESENT. AND IF THAT WOULD YOU ALL LIKE TO COME UP AND JUST PLEASE GIVE YOUR NAME. THE SLIDE THAT SHOWS THE BLOCK WHERE THIS IS LOCATED, THE ONE THAT HAD THE STAR ON IT, I DON'T, BUT IT'S IN THEIR PACKET. IN THEIR PACKET OKAY. THAT'S GREAT. GOOD EVENING CHAIRPERSON AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE. I'M BOB ROEDER. I'M AN ATTORNEY HERE IN MCKINNEY, TEXAS, AND I REPRESENT THE BARRETTS IN THIS APPLICATION. AS CASSIE MENTIONED, THIS IS OUR THIRD TIME AROUND WITH THIS. THE FIRST TIME AROUND, WE WENT ONLY TO THE. WE WERE ONLY REQUIRED TO GO TO THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER. WE RECEIVED A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO DEMOLISH THIS STRUCTURE.

SECOND TIME AROUND, WE CAME TO THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER. WE WERE DIRECTED TO COME TO THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION ADVISORY BOARD. WE CAME HERE WITH A RECOMMENDATION FROM YOUR HPO THAT THE COA BE ISSUED FOR DEMOLITION. THAT WAS DENIED. NOW, I WANT TO PUT SOME CONTEXT AS TO WHY WE'RE HERE AND GIVE YOU SOME BACKGROUND IN YOUR PACKET THAT CASSIE SENT OUT.

THERE IS A PAGE THAT HAS A BLOCK WITH ALL THE LOTS ON THE BLOCK SHOWN. IT'S NOT IN HER SLIDE PRESENTATION. IF YOU HAVE THAT, I WOULD ASK YOU TO TURN TO THAT. IT'S A PAGE THAT LOOKS LIKE THIS WITH A STAR ON THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. WELL, HI, CAITLIN, HOW ARE YOU? I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU IN MONTHS. ONE OF MY FAVORITES RIGHT HERE. MAKE SURE YOU PUSH THE RIGHT BUTTONS. I WILL TRY, OKAY? I THINK IT'S REALLY TOWARDS THE END. SORT OF. BUT.

THERE YOU GO. RIGHT THERE. THAT'S IT. OKAY. PERFECT. THANK YOU. WE'RE FACING WE HAVE NORTH TO THE TOP NOW. THE LAST TIME WE WERE HERE WE HAD WE BROUGHT FIVE PROJECTS. ACTUALLY SIX ONE WAS NOT A HISTORIC PROJECT, BUT WE BROUGHT FIVE REQUESTS FOR COAS TO YOU. WE REQUESTED COA TO ALLOW US TO MOVE THE SURREY HOUSE DOWN TO THE SOUTH END OF THE BLOCK ON TENNESSEE STREET TO STANFORD. THERE ARE. THERE WERE THREE HISTORIC HOMES OR YOUR DEFINITION OF HISTORIC 301, 303 AND 305 THAT WE INCLUDED IN OUR REQUEST. AND THEN THIS PROPERTY HERE. I WISH I COULD I CAN USE

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[00:30:01]

WE'VE GOT A DEAL FOR YOU. OKAY. SO HERE ARE SOME OF THE CONSIDERATIONS I THINK WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT REDEVELOPING THIS PROPERTY. THIS IS IN THE DOWNTOWN EDGE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, WHICH MEANS IT'S THE THREE STORY HEIGHT LIMITATION. UNLIKE THE NORTHERN PART, NOT INCLUDING THESE PROPERTIES. BUT IF 301, 303, THAT WAS PART OF THE DOWNTOWN CORE AND THE CEILING COULD BE, I THINK, AS MUCH AS FIVE STORIES. SO THIS HAS A THREE STORY LIMITATION.

BUT THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THE HISTORIC ABOUT THE DOWNTOWN ZONING IS THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT FOR OFF STREET PARKING. NOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW OFTEN Y'ALL GO DOWNTOWN ALL THE TIME. SO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT DOWNTOWN NOW HAS BECOME A PEDESTRIAN LOCATION RIGHT? AND IT'S NOT A PEDESTRIAN LOCATION, IN MY OPINION, BECAUSE I WANT TO GET OUT AND WALK IN THE HEAT OF THE SUMMER. IT'S A PEDESTRIAN LOCATION BECAUSE I AM FORCED TO BECAUSE THERE'S NO PLACE TO PARK. SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE BARRETTS HAVE TALKED ABOUT IN MY PRESENCE AT LEAST, IS IF YOU DEVELOP THIS AREA DOWN HERE, THIS MIGHT BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE AN OFF STREET PARKING PLACE. NOW, OBVIOUSLY, YOU LANDSCAPE EVERYTHING. THE CITY'S DOWNTOWN ORDINANCE IS VERY STRICT ON WHAT YOU CAN DO. AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. BUT BUT THAT'S JUST ONE OF THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT WOULD ALLOW THIS TO BE BETTER UTILIZED IF, IF THEY HAD THIS ADJACENCY HERE, IT MIGHT WELL BE THAT SOME OF THIS REMAINS WITH THE SURREY HOUSE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE OF THAT IS, BUT THIS IS IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO ALL OF THAT, TO THE, TO THE SOUTH. SO I SAY ALL THAT TO YOU, TO SAY WE'RE NOT HERE TO PICK OFF THESE HOUSES ONE AT A TIME. WE'RE HERE FOCUSED JUST ON THREE, 11. THE OTHER THING I WOULD TELL YOU IS YOUR ROLE IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN A TYPICAL BOARD ROLE FROM MY PERSPECTIVE. YOU HAVE THE CITY AND THE CITY COUNCIL THAT HAS ENACTED A DOWNTOWN ORDINANCE THAT ENCOURAGES REDEVELOPMENT OF DOWNTOWN. AND THE REASON I DO THAT IS THAT THE MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE RESIDING DOWN THERE, THE MORE VIBRANT THE DOWNTOWN WILL BE. I THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT OUR CONVERSATION TODAY, AND I'M ANXIOUS TO HEAR FROM YOU, BUT YOU KNOW, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT OF MCKINNEY WOULD NOT BE WHAT IT IS TODAY WITHOUT THE VIBRANCY OF THE DOWNTOWN, WITHOUT THE EATERIES, THE DRINKERS, THE RETAIL SERVICES, THE OFFICE OPPORTUNITIES, I DOUBT THAT WE WOULD SEE THE LEVEL OF INTEREST IN THE REHABILITATION AND PEOPLE MOVING INTO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND PAYING THE PRICES THAT HAVE GOTTEN PRETTY, PRETTY HIGH. IF DOWNTOWN WAS WHAT IT WAS. WHEN I CAME HERE IN 1974, WHICH WAS BASICALLY A BOARDED UP DOWNTOWN, JAMES WAS HERE. BETTY GREW UP HERE, YOU KNOW, SO THINGS HAVE CHANGED AND THEY HAVE CHANGED DRAMATICALLY IN. BUT THAT CHANGE IS BASED UPON THE VIBRANCY OF WHAT'S GOING ON DOWN HERE. NOW, AS THIS BUILDING STANDS TODAY, AS THIS STRUCTURE STANDS TODAY, IT IS REALLY NOTHING MORE THAN A MOVIE PROP. IT'S NOT A HOUSE. NOBODY LIVES IN IT. IT LOOKS GOOD FROM THE STREET. BUT IS THAT A REASON TO KEEP IT? YOU KNOW, YOU COULD HAVE DOWNTOWNS AND WE'VE SEEN OTHER CITIES THAT HAVE TRIED TO DO THIS OTHER TOWNS. RIGHT. THEY'VE TRIED TO CREATE THEIR OWN HISTORIC DOWNTOWN. SO THEY BUILT THESE STRUCTURES THAT ARE BASICALLY MOVIE SET FACADES, AND THEY DON'T GET WHERE MCKINNEY IS. SO THAT HOUSE SITTING THERE, EVEN THOUGH THEY KEEP THE FACADE VERY NICE, DOESN'T REALLY ADD TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. IT'S A MEDIUM PRIORITY, AS I UNDERSTAND

[00:35:02]

SO I GUESS MY SOLICITATION TO YOU TODAY IS GIVE US A COA. LET US TAKE THAT HOUSE DOWN. LET US REDEVELOP THE REST OF THAT PROPERTY AND DO SOMETHING THAT SUPPORTS THE DOWNTOWN. THERE ARE LIMITATIONS ON WHAT WE CAN DO. WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO PUT A BUNCH OF JUMP HOUSES DOWN THERE OR, YOU KNOW, CAR LOTS AND STUFF. SO I THINK THE CITY HAS TAKEN A LOT OF TIME TO PUT, PUT IN PLACE THE RULES AND REGULATIONS TO MAKE THAT A VERY NICE DEVELOPMENT. WHATEVER IT TURNS OUT TO BE. AND IT COULD BE SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS INDIVIDUAL BROWNSTONES. PARDON ME, IT COULD BE A RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT. THERE ARE A LOT OF USES THAT COULD GO THERE, BUT THAT WHATEVER GOES THERE HAS GOT TO MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE BECAUSE NEW DOLLARS ARE GOING INTO IT.

SO I DOUBT THAT YOU'RE GOING TO FIND SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE SO OUT OF CHARACTER WITH WHAT GOES IN THERE AS TO NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. SO LET ME STOP THERE AND SIMPLY SAY, WHAT WE'RE SEEKING IS THE COA TO BE ABLE TO DEMOLISH THE BUILDING. AND I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTION.

DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. ROEDER? IT'S BOB. BOB, BOB. MR. ROEDER, FIRST RULE. OKAY.

YES, SIR. YOU WERE HERE FOR US TO. YOU WITNESSED US TO GIVE A HISTORICAL MARKER AND A TAX ABATEMENT TO ANOTHER MEDIUM. SIGNIFICANT HOUSE. SO I THINK YOU KNOW THAT WE CHERISH THOSE JUST AS MUCH AS WE DO THE HERD HOUSE. AND, YOU KNOW, YOU SAID, I'M SURE YOU DON'T. WANT THAT.

BUT THIS IS THE HISTORICAL PRESERVATION BOARD. AND YOU MENTIONED MCKINNEY BEING BOARDED UP FOR SOME TIME. I WAS HERE FOR THAT, TOO. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT PUT THEIR ABSOLUTE HEART AND SOUL IN EVERY PENNY THEY HAD INTO THAT. NOT BECAUSE IT WASN'T EASY, BUT BECAUSE IT WAS HARD. AND, AND I, I THINK YOU'RE SLIGHTING THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT A LITTLE BIT WITH YOUR COMMENTS TOWARD THE VALUE OF THIS HOUSE, BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY YOU'D LIKE US TO VOTE. WELL, I DIDN'T MEAN TO SLIGHT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT OR THE VALUE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. YOU'RE I WANT TO I'M NOT MEANING TO OFFEND ANYBODY, BUT YOUR YOUR RULES SAY IF SOMETHING IS 50 YEARS OLD, IT'S HISTORIC. 50 YEARS OLD. I PASSED THAT MARK A LONG TIME AGO. AND THE SOME OF THE HOUSES I MOVED INTO 50 YEARS AGO ARE NOW HISTORIC. WELL, THAT WAS A FOX AND JACOBS HOUSE. I FIND LITTLE TO BE HISTORIC ABOUT A FOX AND JACOBS HOUSE, EXCEPT IT'S 50 YEARS OLD NOW. I'M NOT COMPARING THIS TO A FOX AND JACOBS HOUSE, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS YOU. IF I WERE TO LOOK AT THE MANDATES YOU HAVE UNDER THE STATUTE, UNDER THE CITY'S ORDINANCE, IT APPEARS TO ME THAT THAT YOU HAVE A BINARY DECISION. IT'S EITHER HISTORIC OR IT'S NOT. IF IT'S HISTORIC, WE'VE GOT TO PROTECT IT. AND THAT'S WHY I WAS SAYING THAT YOUR ROLE IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT, IN MY OPINION, IN THAT YOU'VE GOT TO WORK WITH OR YOU SHOULD OR I ENCOURAGE YOU TO, NOT THAT YOU SHOULD OR YOU GOT TO. I ENCOURAGE YOU TO WORK WITH THE OTHER COMPONENTS OF WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A FAMILY LIVING IN THAT HOUSE THAT'S GOING TO FREQUENT GROCERY STORE. IF WE EVER GET ONE DOWNTOWN, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO

[00:40:02]

I DON'T THINK WE WE'VE GOT DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT. I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE ISSUE BECAUSE THIS HOUSE, IT LOOKS PRETTY GOOD. AND THEN WE'VE JUST GOT DEMOLITION. SO THEN WE GO UNDER AND WE LOOK AT THE CONSIDERATION FACTORS FOR DEMOLITION. AND I DON'T SEE HOW THAT APPLIES. I DON'T SEE YOU KNOW, IS THE PROPERTY INCAPABLE OF EARNING A REASONABLE RETURN? I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE THAT THAT I SEE THAT EFFORTS TO FIND A PURCHASER INTERESTED IN ACQUIRING THE PROPERTY AND PRESERVING IT HAVE FAILED. I DON'T I HAVEN'T I DIDN'T SEE THAT IN IN WHAT I, WHAT I READ. AND SO I REALLY HAVE I'VE LOOKED AT ALL OF THESE AND YOU KNOW, WE, WE LOOKED AT THIS IN MAY AND I FELT THE SAME WAY THEN THAT I DO NOW THAT IT IT IS A HISTORIC STRUCTURE AND IT'S NOT MY JOB TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS GOING TO GO IN THAT AREA. BUT I FEEL LIKE AS A MEMBER OF THIS BOARD, IT'S MY JOB TO TRY TO PRESERVE IF THERE'S A WAY TO DO IT. AND THAT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, I THAT'S I JUST FEEL REAL STRONG ABOUT WHAT WE DO. WE ARE AN ADVISORY BOARD. AND, YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE THE PROCESS AND I DON'T KNOW, CARRIE, IF YOU'RE THE PROCESS CHANGED, THE PROCESS CHANGED AFTER THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY THEY WERE GRANTED IN THE PROCESS CHANGED. AND WE WERE PLACED IN THE PROCESS. AND I FEEL LIKE THAT WE HAVE A COUNCIL THAT RECOGNIZES THIS BOARD, AS YOU KNOW, BENEFICIAL TO MAYBE IF IT'S A HISTORIC STRUCTURE, WE SHOULD TAKE OUR TIME IN FIGURING OUT CAN WE SAVE IT? CAN WE SAVE EVERYTHING? ABSOLUTELY NOT. BUT I FEEL LIKE THAT SITTING ON THIS BOARD, IT IS YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S WHY COUNCIL PUT US IN THAT PROCESS. AND I APPRECIATE I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT. AND I THINK THEY REALIZE HOW IMPORTANT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IS TO THIS COMMUNITY. AND THAT'S WHY THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE PUT US ON THIS BOARD. AND I, I NOTICE I KNOW THAT IN THE LETTER IT SAID THAT YOU HAD PROFESSIONALS, WHICH WE DO HAVE EXPERTS, WE HAVE HISTORIC EXPERTS THAT MAY BE SUPPORTED THAT AND BUT I FEEL LIKE THAT WHEN YOU WHEN IT'S A HISTORIC STRUCTURE, NOT ONLY DO WE NEED CASSIE, BUT I FEEL LIKE THAT WE NEED PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE COMMUNITY THAT ARE INVESTED IN THE COMMUNITY TO KIND OF WEIGH IN AND SAY, YOU KNOW, DOES THIS DO WE NEED TO TRY TO SAVE THIS? AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING. I THINK I THINK THE PROCESS WORKS AND I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR PERSPECTIVE, AND I HOPE THAT YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE WHERE I'M COMING FROM AS A AS A

[00:45:06]

HEARD SOME NARRATIVE ABOUT POTENTIAL FOR RETURN ECONOMIC RETURN ON THIS PROPERTY WITH ITS CURRENT USE AND. THAT SEEMS TO ME THAT SOME POSSIBILITIES FOR ALTERNATIVE USES FOR IT, LIKE MOVING IT, FOR EXAMPLE, WE'RE CONSIDERING WHAT WHAT IF ANY, IS THE IS THE RETURN THAT THE OWNER GETS FROM THIS PROPERTY. NOW, IS THERE ANY RETURN WHATSOEVER, WHETHER WHETHER TANGIBLE OR INTANGIBLE? IT'S A PRETTY BROAD QUESTION, I UNDERSTAND, BUT IT'S USED AS PERHAPS A STAGING AREA.

DOES THAT DOES THAT CREATE ANY KIND OF POSITIVE ECONOMIC RETURN? NOT ON A STANDALONE BASIS. IT'S STRICTLY A STORAGE. AND STAGING IS PROBABLY A GOOD TERM FOR IT. AREA. IS THERE REPLACEMENT SPACE ON THE PROPERTY TO TAKE OVER THAT STORAGE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS? THIS PROPERTY OR CURRENTLY? WELL, TIM, I, I HAVEN'T BEEN IN THE HOUSE IN A WHILE. MY, MY ASSUMPTION IS THAT THAT THIS HOUSE IS SORT OF LIKE ONE OF MY CLOSETS AT HOME. I JUST PUT STUFF IN IT AND I NEVER TAKE STUFF OUT OF IT. AND IF I LOST EVERYTHING IN MY CLOSET, IT WOULDN'T MATTER. SO PROBABLY YOU COULD TAKE EVERYTHING OUT OF THE STORAGE PART OF THIS HOUSE AND YOU WOULD NEVER MISS IT. YOU WOULDN'T NEED IT IN THE FUTURE. PARDON ME IF THIS IS OUT OF ORDER, BUT, CASSIE, COULD YOU EXPAND ANY ON THE BASIS FOR THE PRIORITY FOR THIS? FOR THIS PROPERTY, FOR ITS MEDIUM PRIORITY, ANYTHING BEYOND JUST ITS AGE? SO YOU'RE ASKING ESSENTIALLY WHAT GOES INTO THE MEDIUM PRIORITY? SO I CAN I TALKED ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT FOR THIS HOME IN PARTICULAR. LET ME GO BACK. SO THIS ONE IS LIKELY IT WAS CONSIDERED MEDIUM PRIORITY BECAUSE IT IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE KIND OF COMMON LOCAL BUILDING FORM, ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OR TYPE. IT HAS SOME ALTERATIONS THAT COULD DIMINISH ITS INTEGRITY, BUT ULTIMATELY IS STILL A GOOD EXAMPLE OF A TYPE WHICH IS FOLK VICTORIAN. DO YOU WANT TO TALK, CASSIE, CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE DIFFERENT FACTORS THAT GO INTO A PRIORITY RATING AND DESIGNATING A PROPERTY AS A CERTAIN PRIORITY IN THE HISTORIC NATURE? I KNOW THAT THERE IS AN AGE THRESHOLD, BUT ARE THERE OTHER FACTORS THAT GO INTO THAT PRIORITY RATING? YES. SO WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT DESIGNATING A HOME THERE, THERE ARE MANY THINGS THAT YOU LOOK AT. SO THERE ARE WHAT'S CALLED SIGNIFICANCE. AND THEN THERE'S WHAT'S CALLED INTEGRITY. A PROPERTY BEING 50 YEARS OR OLDER IS KIND OF JUST THE THRESHOLD. SO THAT'S THE BASIS NOW. THEN YOU LOOK AT SIGNIFICANCE. SO IS IT IMPORTANT. DOES IT HAVE AN ARCHITECTURAL STYLE THAT'S IMPORTANT TO THE AREA ARCHITECTURE OR ARCHEOLOGICAL SIGNIFICANCE, ANY OF THOSE KIND OF FACTORS. SO THAT'S A SIGNIFICANCE. SO WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT MOST OF THE ONES IN MCKINNEY ARCHITECTURALLY THEY HAVE SOME SIGNIFICANCE TO THE COMMUNITY. AND THEN YOU LOOK AT INTEGRITY, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY HOW MUCH HAS IT CHANGED SINCE IT WAS BUILT. AND THAT'S CHANGE IN

[00:50:05]

[00:55:01]

IT CAN BE DONE. THE QUESTION I CAN'T ANSWER IS, WILL IT BE DONE? AND THAT INVOLVES THE OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY WORKING WITH THE CITY OF MCKINNEY TO SEE THE HIGHEST AND BEST USE FOR THAT PROPERTY. I'M REALLY AT THE SAME TIME WISHING TO HAVE A REVIEW OF THE PLANNING OF THAT AREA BY THE CITY STAFF, WHICH IS QUITE WELL EQUIPPED TO REVIEW THAT WITH CONSULTANTS TO SEE HOW A BETTER USE THAN A MULTI-STORY BUILDING MIGHT OCCUR. AS BOB SAID, THEY WALKED INTO THIS WITH THE COUNCIL NOT HAVING ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE TOWN NEAR TOWN DEVELOPMENT AND SUDDENLY A MEGA BLOCK OCCURS ACROSS FROM SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ON KENTUCKY STREET. AND THAT'S WHAT GOT BACK UP ON MOST PEOPLE IN THIS TOWN WHEN THAT HAPPENED. SO YOU ASKED ME MY OPINION. I'VE GIVEN YOU MORE THAN A PENNY, AND YOU CAN TELL ME TO SHUT UP IF YOU WANT TO, BUT THE POINT I'M SAYING IS, LET'S BE VERY CAUTIOUS. WE HAVE AN INTEREST IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PROPERTY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE NEED TO DO THE RIGHT THING FOR THE COMMUNITY. AND HAVING DONE OVER 300 OF THE OLD HOMES AND OVER 60 OF THE BUILDINGS DOWNTOWN, I HAVE NEVER SEEN A BUILDING THAT CAN'T BE RESTORED. IF THERE'S A WILL TO DO IT. AND I'M SAYING THAT FROM SOME PRETTY MISERABLE PROPERTIE.

I HAVE I TALK TOO MUCH. NO, YOU DID, YOU DID. YOU SAID YOUR TIME IS UP. WE DID GOOD. OKAY. WOULD SOMEONE LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION OR MORE DISCUSSION OR. I SEE AN ESTIMATE FOR MOVING THE STRUCTURE. DO WE HAVE AN ESTIMATE FOR REHABILITATION? HAS THAT BEEN SORT. OKAY. WELL, I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION. I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE DENY THE REQUEST. THE REQUEST TO, TO DEMOLITION THIS BUILDING, THIS HOUSE. SECOND, SECOND BOMB. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR, RAISE YOUR HANDS. KEEP YOUR HANDS UP REAL HIGH. OPPOSED? OKAY. THAT PASSED UNANIMOUSLY. OKAY. THANK YOU ALL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING. ALL RIGHT, LET'S SEE. OKAY. I THINK I'M AT THAT RIGHT NOW, AREN'T I? YEP. YOU GOT IT. OKAY, OKAY. DO WE HAVE ANY GENERAL CITIZEN COMMENTS REGARDING ITEMS? NOT ON THE AGENDA AND WE HAVE NONE. OKAY. DO THE BOARD MEMBERS OR STAFF

[BOARD AND STAFF COMMENTS]

CONGRATULATIONS. THANK YOU. OKA. ALL RIGHT. DO I HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN? MOVE. OH, Y'ALL WANT TO STAY? MR. MCWILLIAMS, DO YOU HAVE A SECOND, SECOND, SECOND BY MISS ESCAMILLA? ALL IN FAVOR, RAISE YOUR HAND. OPPOSED? OKAY, WE'RE ADJOURNED AT 631. NICE. THANK YOU SO MUCH. WE DID PRETTY

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.